Which New Amp?

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by vox Phantom, Aug 7, 2019.

  1. Kontaktmoi

    Kontaktmoi Tele-Meister

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    Soo... WHY do you want to buy this ALL SINGING AND ALL DANCING AMP just to screw the signal up with a bunch of LOW-FIDELITY Pedals?? SO sell that expensive guitar, don't buy that expensive amp. go with a Boss Katana and stack your pedals in front of it and you are done... Right?? You are killing that EXPENSIVE Sound even before it gets anywhere near that amp anyway.
    Think about it.... The Katana allows you to (* decently) model your sound, you can download patches, the lot.....
     
  2. Kontaktmoi

    Kontaktmoi Tele-Meister

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    Seriously...

    I understand that have THE AWESOME AMP is he AWESOME thing to do... I do the same, all the time. because I like AWESOME THINGS and I prioritized them so I can afford being stupid and spend cash like there is no tomorrow.
    I would ALWAYS buy an amp that has a tube reverb and if at all possible a similar Vibrato twin channel amp just so I can eliminate 2-3 effect boxes that model your sound before you get anywhere near your amp. There is a reason why old Tube amps sound good and it is not necessarily what you think it is. In my mind it's a " lucky" grab of components from the stash in the supply cabinet that turned out to have "this sound" because it just AMPLIFIED the signal and a simple tone stacks that allowed you to color the tone using some simple filter-type arrangements.
    Try it out....play an old Fender amp, turn ALL the tone knobs to ZERO , plug your guitar in and gun the volume. What happens??

    The initial guitar amps where nothing but another application for the amps typically used in entertainment (theaters, fairs etc Hammond organs, juke-boxes type stuff) all these years ago.

    You could take an old McIntosh stereo amp *( the one with the bottles shining / glowing ) and you would have a superb sound. Not a sound you would use in a band but nevertheless a great sound. So add the tone stack in front and there is your tonal amp that can sound like a guitar amp.

    In fact, maybe only YOU can hear the difference between a 6V6 a EL 34 amp when played in a band environment... maybe.
    I have all the stompboxes I can think of and I go and unplug all of them ( exceptions - the clean boost and a delay pedal) and my sound retains it's sound quality IN MY EARS .

    Nice when you can afford to experiment he??
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  3. Lawdawg

    Lawdawg Tele-Meister

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    Super clean and loud would definitely seem to call for a Twin Reverb especially for surf/beach boys/folk rock. I don't have an issue with the reissues, but if you want to maximize your clean headroom I'd recommend a used early to mid-70s Silverface Twin. They regularly sell for less than the new reissues, sound fantastic for clean tones, and are inexpensive to maintain and repair.
     
  4. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Dr Z made numerous amps better suited to your range of styles than the Z Wreck.
    That is a Trainwreck circuit, rather specialized playing technique you should choose by how you play the amp more than by the recorded music styles you need to perform.
    Also Dr Z amps are so plentiful used that they are often better deals than the less common Top Hat and Tone King amps.
    Many Dr Z amps are based on the AC30, though most push that platform well into other territory.
    The Stang Ray might be worth a drive to try if you see one for sale, it does more in the clean range, so might suit if you used pedals for dirt.

    I'd go with what you can try locally and like.
     
  5. David Barnett

    David Barnett Doctor of Teleocity

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    I've never heard a bad-sounding Top Hat amp.
     
  6. Kontaktmoi

    Kontaktmoi Tele-Meister

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    Or a Super Reverb with 4 x 10 speakers .. that moves a bunch of air too!!
     
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  7. Lawdawg

    Lawdawg Tele-Meister

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    I think before you spend money on an amp you should try to figure out if you want a Fender or Vox type tone, because they are fairly different. My two amps are a 73 Twin and a Hayseed 30 which is an AC30 clone, and I can tell you they sound nothing alike. All of the amps on your list are super nice, but they all fall pretty squarely into either a Fender Twin or AC30 category.
     
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  8. Lawdawg

    Lawdawg Tele-Meister

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    Yes sir! A Blackface Super Reverb might be my favorite Fender. I always feel like you get some extra punch from the 4x10 configuration without losing the underlying sweetness of the cleans.
     
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  9. Kontaktmoi

    Kontaktmoi Tele-Meister

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    I "happen" to walk through my local GC yesterday and they still had a BF Super Reverb re-issue for sale - minty - for $ 960.00 . I know the guy that sold it but I was too late to pounce. I did get the Ltd edition Deluxe Re-issue from him when he was dragging the two amps into GC for the sale ( he was moving to Europe hence the fire sale) a few months ago. I got the DL Reverb MINT-LIKE NEW - FOR $500.00 EVEN. MY LUCKY DAY / WEEK / MONTH!!
     
  10. Kontaktmoi

    Kontaktmoi Tele-Meister

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    I think you've nailed it completely. Those are the two choices... You can not go wrong with either of them but, if the OP wants to rely on stomp boxes to get his sound, I suggest that is a requirement that should rise to the top in the category " must have lots of head room" when making a decision.
    If not, I would suggest having a setup where you push in signal to the amp clean, and adjust output to the amp just to where the breakup in the amp happens. That will give you the cleanest DIRTY tone you would want .. if you are a clean player... At least that how I see it.. Doing that would give you the bottles-on-the-boil sound at almost every volume.
     
  11. Kontaktmoi

    Kontaktmoi Tele-Meister

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    Today I read something that I found interesting. A saying from Jim Marshall .

    " The more you add something the more you take away ".

    I believe the guy is correct!
     
  12. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Assuming you're serious, I'd say first off that a guitar amp is already "low fidelity", and comparatively a digital reverb or a high quality analog delay is higher fidelity than a guitar amp turned up to performance volume.

    Suggesting that pedals "kill that expensive sound" is no more true than saying spices kill the flavor of expensive meat.

    I agree somewhat though that it is possible to use pedals in a way where the amp sound isn't really playing much of a role in the overall sound. Turn the gain up and the output level down on a distortion pedal and turn the amp volume way down, we would mostly hear the pedal, not so much the amp.

    Listen to Gilmours Muffs and flangers into Hiwatts sound and state that Gilmour and Pete Cornish are "killing that expensive sound"!

    Nooooooooooooo!
     
  13. Kontaktmoi

    Kontaktmoi Tele-Meister

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    I am serious. The fact that a guitar amp plays in a narrow band ( 50-5K maybe) does not mean it is LOW fidelity. It is HIGH fidelity in that it is supposed to reproduce EXACTLY the sound of your equipment.. and that is does... if you let it, in that band / space. We are talking about reproducing the sound your instrument makes, amplify that sound and reproduce it exactly. That is not LOW fidelity in this discussion.
    Now when you modify that sound is some way it begs the question, do you NEED all that equipment ( HIGH END = HIGH DOLLARS) to reproduce that and the answer is NO, you don't and that is what I am trying to convey. If your " modified" sound comes from a variety of external sources, one of which is your amp others would be your stomp boxes etc, then your amp is just a component of your sound and can be substituted much easier and it can through modeling etc.
    Just watch this Koch video which got posted showing his rig and listen to what he says during the interview. Everything he does comes from one source.. his amp with built-ins and in THIS case you need a great amp that does it all..

     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
  14. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    That Koch guitar actually has a pedal-like preamp effect built in under the control plate.
    ...but....

    Have you even played guitar through an actual high fidelity stereo amp?
    That alone will show you how much a guitar amp colors your sound.

    Do you consider a distorted guitar sound to be high fidelity amplification?

    Seriously, the amp is the sound as much as the guitar, and for more distorted guitar sounds the amp is more the sound than the guitar is the sound.
    Youtube has all sorts of interesting opinion and chat etc but guitar amps are not hi fi and do not "reproduce the sound your guitar makes, amplify that sound and reproduce it exactly".

    Actually your guitar does not even make a sound through the pickups.
    It induces a small current in the coil at the same frequency as the vibrating string, but it is by no means "a sound" that the amp is amplifying.
    The guitar amp is designed to craft a sound by cutting and boosting the eq range and adding distortion even to a "clean" sound; into what we think of as an "electric guitar sound".

    Seriously you should try plugging your guitar into a stereo or a PA mixer.
    A high fidelity amp makes a lousy guitar sound.

    As far as claiming that any distorted guitar sound and any pedal preamplified guitar sound is somehow wrong, I think you'll have a hard time convincing all the players that aren't following your directive!
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
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  15. Kontaktmoi

    Kontaktmoi Tele-Meister

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    All good stuff., and I am not trying to influence anybody.

    My Swart AST with tone control straight up does not color the signal..... the coloration comes from the tone stack and is focuses the sound on the frequencies that humans find pleasant and desirable but you can put a microphone and record the sounds that are generated acoustically, and these basic sounds are pretty similar.

    Yes I have done the HIFI stuff and YES is does not sound good because that tone stack is not the appropriate one for the sound we are used to hear.

    What I am telling you though, is that you do not need a 3K amp or a 50K Bumble to amplify a guitar but that an amp with T & R ( Tremolo and Reverb) eliminates the need for additional boxes that add complexity.
    And on Koch, he also tells you that there is really only ONE effect he insisted on in addition to tube T & R.

    In the meantime, I am having fun and I trust you too have some of that.
     
  16. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Haha I don't like or use trem or spring reverb at all....

    Also don't like most mid scooped amps that have good trem and verb.
     
  17. Kontaktmoi

    Kontaktmoi Tele-Meister

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    Lots of choices... take your pick.
     
  18. vox Phantom

    vox Phantom Tele-Meister

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    I never had any Luck with an Amp that had 6V6 Tubes and for
    a short time I had the reissue Fender Deluxe Reverb. The band
    I was in you could not hear the Amp and I was sitting in front of
    it. The other people played Loud.
     
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