Which is worse: perceived arrogance or false humility?

[dspellman1]

Part of what makes a musician or entire band good, particularly live, is confidence. Arrogance lacks the ability to recognize one's own limitations or someone else's greatness.

There's something to this "confidence" thing. It's the difference between the occasional players in the wedding band and the musicians in the bar band that want to punch you in the face with their music.

Arrogance is the province of the 13-year old who finishes a patchy solo, throws his hands in the air and yells, "Nailed it!"

 

[dspellman1]

I think false humility is worse, because if you're perceived to be arrogant, you're already paying a cost. With false humility, you don't know yet.

It's probably best to know what you're doing. You never know who's married to whom.

Step carefully until you KNOW you're out of the minefield.

 

[micpoc]

If you want some honest and genuine arrogance, talk to any budding teenager guitarist thinking they're the next EVH. Goes with the territory...

I think I'll pass. I have a hard enough time dealing with my own internalized arrogance; it becomes more obvious the older I get.

 

[Old Deaf Roadie]

There is arrogance, and there is humility, and there are walking, talking rectums. Seems to me that false humility & arrogance can easily be grouped together as one. Being a jerk, is neither of the 2 I mentioned above, it's just being mean. I once got yelled at by a very prominent folk artist because I do not have the ability to read minds. His son and daughter were very apologetic about their dad, but that artist is one reason I am glad to no longer work concerts.

 

[MTPoteet]

A lot, if not most, of the guitarists I have met over the years (and I'm an old man) have been truly arogant regaurdless of thier status.

There have been exceptions, but very few.

 

[telemnemonics]

So those two words signify both inner feelings and outward actions, plus are used by others who may be showing their own inner feelings if for example they call a great artist arrogant, due to their own discomfort about their desire to be "the greatest artist".
Musicians suffer from these things and can flip between the two if for example one is a legit great guitar player but only known in their area and not really "important" in the larger music world, maybe getting more local respect than they deserve and they know it.
Then in walks a notably better player from some other town who sits in and upstages the local ace.
Lots of feelings come up in both players!
If the visitor overplays they are being arrogant.
If the visitor underplays or cues with the local player for sharing solos, WE may be on the fence and half ca
l the out of towner arrogant.

Ive done a lot of study around those feelings and actions as they relate to my own feelings and actions, because in 12 Step recovery thats kinda what its all about.
In addition to the word arrogant which we might apply to a boss who after five years on the job tells us how to do something we already know how to do.
Are they being arrogant?
Depends on our feelings.
How about a coworker who does the same thing butbis not our boss?
Because they are not responsible for telling us what to do, we can add pompous and grandiose to their arrogant behavior.

And really, a boss is being reasonable to run through a procedure we already know, if their boss sent a memo saying tighten up the X department, after getting a complaint with no way to know whose minor mistake was complained about.

Grandiosity is grossly misplaced arrogance, like the coworker imagining they are a boss.
Yet grandiosity is required in a pop musician performing for big audiences.

Go back to the coworker acting like a boss, they can instruct us with an air of humility, like pretend to ask us how we thing is best, so sneak by the arrogance mantle yet don the crown of grandiosity without being the least bit entertaining, the way a grandiose pop musician is smart to be, if 100,000 of us paid $50-$100 each to be entertained.

Pompous vs grandiose?
Both are close to arrogance but I think pompous is never really an asset or attractive, where grandiosity can be the right sauce for a performance.

I stick to my idea that arrogance is only in play when we or they cannot back up their attitude.
Take a fast evolving life or death situation.
The individual present who has solid capabilities which can change the outcome from bad to good, MUST act immediately without false modesty or humility.
If all are strangers, one is a doctor, one took CPR at the YMCA, one is not breathing, and the rest are fumbling with phone cameras; how to choose who takes action if the guy from the Y jumps in first?

Then what about art and artists?
Is better actually better?
Some of us think shred is not better than Blues or even Blooze.
At the local jam, who gets more solo time?
The local Blooze daddy who nails Albert King pretty well?
Or a visiting pro like lets see who do we love to hate for over playing?
And if the collective WE has a tendency to single out accomplished players and spew hate on them for THEIR arrogance, who is really arrogant?

When unknown players spew hate on guys like Bonamassa and John Mayer, and in particular it is well known that Bonamassa looks kinda arrogant and internet chat just loves to hate him for it despite the fact that really none of us can upstage him in success or ability; kinda looks like WE of the gear chat community are a bit on the pompous grandiose side to call out Bonamassa for sucking at his music career path.

 

[Fiesta Red]

I have met a lot of guitarists (famous and otherwise), and to be honest, the worst arrogance is usually found amongst the less-famous and the less-talented of the bunch.

One of the most accomplished and talented musicians I ever met (was/is not a household name) was during Farm Aid at the old Texas Stadium. We snuck backstage to meet him and he said to me and my friends who were geeking out over him, “C’mon y’all—you’re embarrassing me!”
He was flattered by our enthusiasm but felt it was unnecessary…he then talked to us for thirty minutes about guitars and albums and shows and amps. I’ve met/talked to him several times since then, and he always says, “Oh man—are you one of those guys from Texas Stadium? Y’all are nuts! How ya doing?” (And this is thirty years later). Then the conversation goes away from him and into what is going on with the latest gig, what’s going on with my (non-important) band and (non-existent) musical career…he can play circles around dang near anybody, has played with dang near everybody, and he’s asking me about my stupid little bar band that doesn’t even gig once every two months.

 

[arlum]

I'd put arrogant people in the same class as Narcissists. As much as they think about and love themselves I'd hate to come between them. Why mess up a perfect couple. "I do take my hand in mine and promise to .....". There are more than enough great guitarists, (living and passed), that don't come with this emotional / mental flaw for me to put up with there stuff. EVH, Brad Paisley, Joe Satriani, Tommy Emmanuel, Paul Gilbert, Jimi Hendrix, Doug Aldrich, Jerry Reed, Marty Friedman, etc., etc. No matter how good someone plays guitar there either is, was or will be someone better.

 

[LGOberean]

At the 2020 NAMM Show, Greg Koch and Mateus Asato jammed at the Suhr Guitar booth. Greg asked, “What are we going to do?” to which Mateus replied, “I…I…I’m going to try to follow you, man. Whatever you do, let’s just see.”

Now that young man (26 years old at the time) already has more chops than I’ll ever hope to have. But I didn’t take the way he responded to Greg Koch as false humility, as affected or disingenuous. I believe Asato just recognized that Koch had been an award-winning guitarist, performer and clinician before Mateus was even born. I took it as respect on the young man’s part, and respected him for it in turn.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

I think the height of arrogance is assuming you know anything about a public figure’s character… good or bad

Arrogance or gullibility?

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

I appreciate authenticity when encountering others, I strive to be kind and polite with others. Acknowledging the authenticity in others is very important in our relationships.

What do you mean by authenticity? What is it in others? How do you know it when you see it? And do we really have to care whether everyone we encounter is "authentic"?

I don't think I'd have gotten anywhere in work or life if I demanded authenticity, as I understand the word. Honesty is what I hope for from others.

I've been told I'm inauthentic when I play the blues. But as an old white middle-income suburbanite, that standard would stop me from playing blues, folk, punk, Celtic, garage rock, hip-hop, emo, Tex-Mex, trad, disco, New Wave, techno, doo-wop, jazz, or just about anything.

So I just think of authenticity as a fun spoiler.

All of which is obvious it practically goes without saying.

Not so obvious to me, so it's good you said it. Sometimes I when think I'm being polite or kind, it turns out I'm not. Congenital foot-in-mouth disease.

I learned a greeting that is spoken silently from the heart
"From the emptiness in me to the emptiness in you."

Glad it's silent! That's a real downer of a greeting.

 

[1955]

Both are bad.

 

[burtonfan]

Awards, credit, accolades, institutional honors...

It's all hogwash and only feeds the ego. Who likes a well-fed ego?

Do whatever it is you do, do it well, keep your mouth shut unless your opinion is solicited, and hopefully leave the world a better place.

Is my comment above humble, arrogant, or simply the truth? You decide.

 

[That Cal Webway]

Using the wrong verb tents.

.

 

[cousinpaul]

False dichotomy.

 

[bromdenlong]

Would you rather be damned by faint praise or praised by faint damns?

The latter, of course!

 

[getbent]

when they said they invented 80's rock, were they bragging or apologizing?

 

[fjblair]

False arrogance is the worst.

 

[Peegoo]

Any goober that has a 'Badass' bumper sticker on their lifted pickup truck is not a badass.

If you have to advertise it--you're not. You should've stayed in school.

 

[getbent]

arrogant falsies tend to stand out.