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Discussion in 'Amp Tech Center' started by ridgeroamer, Mar 27, 2016.
I guess my problem is that I expect to receive the merchandise that I paid for. Silly me.
What, exactly, were you paying for? Something other than a well-built electrolytic cap that had a lead dress that works for your circuit board?
Or is there something I'm missing about the function, performance, or longevity of radial leaded electrolytic?
Perhaps it's nostalgia or a slavish devotion to the "old ways"? You do know that you can't get freon to clean boards anymore, right?
When I but an axial cap, I expect to get an axial cap, not an axial can with a radial or two stuck inside. Fake/counterfeit caps have been a problem in the past. This is the reason I stated for buying caps from a first tier distributor, i.e. one that obtains their inventory directly from the manufacturer. Try to stay on topic. Non-pertinent tangents add no value to the topic, which is where to purchase caps.
I agree with you Fred. I don't like to be tricked, no matter the price
Are you going to order extras so that you can open them up and make sure they are made like the old ones?
holy silicon vs. tubes...
new skool vs. old skool
for once it's not me on the receiving or giving end of a spat. awkward to behold.
team Fred w/ much respect for (spanish) SrPequeño
Steve isn't exactly famous for his pleasant bedside manner in person. Back in the pre-WWW days, we always hoped to deal with his wife (Angela?), but admittedly, that was a long time ago.
As to the conversation on the Sprague Atoms, they are marketed for restoration work. They are new Sprague (well, CDE) caps, they are just in an over-sized casing purely for old-school appearance. The cost more, it part, because of the limited market, it's a boutique market item from a manufacture who is used to selling product by the millions.
Personally, I use F&T, JJ or Nichicons. I have nothing against Spraque, IC, and some others, and may use them as well.
This is an interesting thread. I agree that a cap inside that isn't up to the rating you paid for is a problem. But, the Sprague obsolete-size cans are just that - bigger cans over a cap that meets the performance criteria of the old ones. In days past, the chemistry and process capability required the larger size.
That they even could make money on that suggests a lot of luddite guitarists out there complaining that the new, properly spec'd caps in their reconditioned amp were a problem... Why? Because guitarists are often clueless about electronic technology and demand new parts that look like the old parts in the PS filtering.
I bet people hear a difference too:
A lot of this was purely marketing. Caps these days are manufactured to tighter tolerances and can be made smaller, but the smaller ones are perceived to be of lower quality. So, they put a quality cap inside a jacket to give it the look and feel that's expected. It's still a quality cap on the inside, as with the Sprague.
As for made in China... What electronic components aren't made there these days?
Nice straw man argument. As I have stated numerous times, the topic is about where to buy caps. Please point to where I am advocating TVA Atoms. As I stated before I rely upon Mouser to ensure the authenticity of the products that I order. Here's one of the reasons why.
Do you have any hard data to back this up other than internet rumor? I find it very hard to believe that Vishay/Sprague would misrepresent a product such as a TVA Atom by placing a radial cap inside without disclosing this in the product information sheet. See attached:
The FTC would be all over this for deceptive/fraudulent marketing practices. This is a no win situation. Even if they were successful in litigation, they would have lost the case in the court of public perception. There is no way that Vishay Sprague would ever risk the potential damage to their corporate reputation by such a misrepresentation for a product that is insignificant to their bottom line. Mouser and other distributors could also face similar regulatory risk and reputation risk if they had knowledge of the deception. If this were to actually happen and the distributors claim ignorance, they could risk losing their AS5553, AS6081 and AS6496 certifications, for failing to have sufficient procedures in place to discover the fraud. This also is a no win situation, as they would risk loosing government and corporate contracts that include provisions as to maintaining such certifications.
The problem is not the quality of electronic components legitimately manufactured in China, but rather the proliferation of fake/counterfeit goods coming from China, i.e. electronic components, Rolex watches, Gucci hand bags, Nike shoes, etc.
Note...counterfeit electrolytic caps are a major industry issue beyond consumer sales. Samsung got screwed several years ago by a Chinese supplier who sold them e-caps marked for higher voltage than they were. A whole generation of Samsung flat TV's had their power supply burn out as a result. Major warranty nightmare.
Most cases of radial caps (and smaller axial caps) in axial shells is that they were countfeit and claimed a higher voltage spec than they really were. This isn't a case of a 400v radial being sold as a 400v axial but a case if a 200v radial being sold as a 400v axial.
Not to mention avionics, medical imaging and diagnostic equipment, power regulation/distribution equipment, and other high risk electronics.
The TGP thread wasn't saying that the TVA Atoms were radials. The thread also discussed counterfeit Elon caps that were lower voltage radials inside.
I'm not mixing anything up. You paraphrased the post that I responded to. My response was to what mRtiNY said in his post.
It's some bad juju.
He never says there is a radial inside TVA's; he just says there is a "smaller cap" inside. Which is true in a way. The guts of a blue Atom would fit in a cap roughly 1/2 to 2/3 their size, the rest is empty space so the cap looks the right size for vintage/restoration application.
But, there are not a smaller "sealed" cap inside the Atom shell if anyone was thinking that.
Go back up the thread where this all started.
I initially responded to Silverface's post regarding Sprague Atoms having a radial cap inside. mRtiNY's response was to my post. The conversation spiraled downward from there.
Sprague atoms from a reputable dealer are still good caps, jacketed or not.