When tube production ends one day...

mexicanyella

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They, whoever they might be, have been trying to duplicate the sound of tubes in guitar amps for over 50 years. It will never happen. Law of physics: tubes operate at relatively high voltages in a vacuum, produce heat and sound the way they do because of the interaction between the anode and cathode in a given circuit and its said voltages. The natural compression and harmonic distortion incurred is what we all hear and love. No solid state device comes close.



Nothing wrong with you liking tube amps, or worrying about what the electric guitar enthusiasm experience will be like if tube production ends one day.

But Your stated view of what’s good and right in the world of tone seems like it could stand to be broader, and allow for more of a range of different tastes rather than assuming everyone shares your own. Even if such broadening were to occur, it doesn’t mean your own tastes have to change.

Some people get sounds they like with no tubes in their signal path, and even without using some imagined or recalled tube amp sound as an initial reference point. Attempting to mimic a tube amp with tubeless equipment is entirely absent from some people’s creative process.
 
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slider313

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Nothing wrong with you liking tube amps, or worrying about what the electric guitar enthusiasm experience will be like if tube production ends one day.

But Your stated view of what’s good and right in the world of tone seems like it could stand to be broader, and allow for more of a range of different tastes rather than assuming everyone shares your own. Even if such broadening were to occur, it doesn’t mean your own tastes have to change.

Some people get sounds they like with no tubes in their signal path, and even without using some imagined or recalled tube amp sound as an initial reference point. Attempting to mimic a tube amp with tubeless equipment is entirely absent from some people’s creative process.

Just voicing an opinion. If a modeling amp or solid state pedal type amp does it for you, then that's fine with me. I'm not knocking the use of anything non tube, just stating that I've heard plenty after 65 years on this planet and I've yet to hear any solid state device that compares........to me.
 

Wally

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Some people get sounds they like with no tubes in their signal path, and even without using some imagined or recalled tube amp sound as an initial reference point. Attempting to mimic a tube amp with tubeless equipment is entirely absent from some people’s creative process.

mexicanyella, IF this were true, then why do all of the modelers model tube amps?? If this were true, they would need to label there sounds
‘Something like you never heard before #1, #2,#3,#4,etc. (;^)
I can appreciate the thought that one certain individual might not have any experience playing through tube amps. However, the music they have heard was made predominantly with tube amps or with amps that in one way or another tried or are trying to mimic those tube sounds.
There are not many of us that were raised in a musical vacuum and then decided to pluck some strings and plug into an amplification system.
 

northernguitar

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They, whoever they might be, have been trying to duplicate the sound of tubes in guitar amps for over 50 years. It will never happen. Law of physics: tubes operate at relatively high voltages in a vacuum, produce heat and sound the way they do because of the interaction between the anode and cathode in a given circuit and its said voltages. The natural compression and harmonic distortion incurred is what we all hear and love. No solid state device comes close.
No. But digital is there if you spend the dough on an Axe.
 

mexicanyella

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mexicanyella, IF this were true, then why do all of the modelers model tube amps?? If this were true, they would need to label there sounds
‘Something like you never heard before #1, #2,#3,#4,etc. (;^)
I can appreciate the thought that one certain individual might not have any experience playing through tube amps. However, the music they have heard was made predominantly with tube amps or with amps that in one way or another tried or are trying to mimic those tube sounds.
There are not many of us that were raised in a musical vacuum and then decided to pluck some strings and plug into an amplification system.
I agree that a lot of people have as a reference point sounds they heard that were created by tube amps, and I also feel like fundamental electric guitar and amp Technology was pretty much together by the 50s and those sounds are of course still useful and relevant.

And from a modeler manufacturer’s marketing perspective, it makes sense to lean heavily on the “mimics _____ amp” angle for sales purposes.

But I did not limit my comments above to modelers. I said “tubeless.”

What about a player who chooses to play through a Roland Jazz Chorus amp? He/she’s not doing that because it’s a cheaper, lighter way to sound like a Fender Twin. It is not really lighter or cheaper, and does not sound like a Fender Twin. It’s its own thing, Not lived by everybody but one that has found a lot of use in a wide range of music. A JC is not intended to be a tube amp emulation, with or without the chorus on. There are other SS amps that are, or were, popular for awhile, that were not trying to sound like a classic iconic tube amp.

That’s the situation I was talking about, which seemed excluded from the post I was quoting and reacting to, and also excluded from your reaction to what I posted.

I don’t mean to throw any shade on people who think tube amps are cool. I think tube amps are cool.

My intent was to point out that trying to nail the sound of a _____ with newer technology (and the inevitable disagreements about the success or failure of that emulation) is not the only game in town.

I will add that I think of my modeler-derived crunchy sound I like to play through as being “JCM800-like.” So I do it too...but not to the point of evaluating my gear’s worth by how accurately it mimics a JCM800. It’s just a kind of shorthand to describe what I am hearing.
 
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LOSTVENTURE

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If that happened, I think there would have to be some level of voltage attenuation included. Most SS components operate at a much lower voltage than do the original vacuum tubes.
 

MarshallHeart

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I think he means an SS replacements for valves (tubes) for old amps. I’m sure it could be done but I don’t think it will ever be real issue, most people will migrate to modelling eventually and valves will continue on as an expensive niche.

If a drop in replacement does come I think it will be more in the lines of that nu-tube technology rather than SS components.
Exactly,a "Nu-tube" ish kit for tube amps with different available voicings (EL34/84 etc)
 

loco gringo

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Haven't you heard? Western Electric is going to start making guitar amp tubes in the USA. It was a result of the wildly successful Save The Tube campaign on social media.

They are also going to make analogue reusable drinking straws. Just think what that means!
 

MarshallHeart

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Tube production will not end in the long term. Where there is demand, there will be supply. Its called market economics. If a great shortfall were to last a long time, new producers would step up. Why? Markets represent profits for corporations. What's happening now is a short term disruption.
yes, but will there be demand in 50 years? Many tube amps will be around in garages,basements etc. not working ,because no one produces tubes anymore. They maybe will remain in safes of modeling/profiler companies for reference, that also own some machines to produce tubes for their own purpose
 
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bobio

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Tube production will not end in the long term. Where there is demand, there will be supply. Its called market economics. If a great shortfall were to last a long time, new producers would step up. Why? Markets represent profits for corporations. What's happening now is a short term disruption.
That is an oversimplification. Demand has to be sufficient for the manufacturer to make money. How much longer can a shrinking market of enthusiasts sustain a level of demand that makes sense for manufacturers to continue making toobs? DSP is cutting into that market every day and the technology is going to continue to improve. Even the cheap SS amps are getting better every iteration...

It isn't like some guy can pick up the slack and start making toobs in his garage on the weekends ;)
 

northernguitar

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That is an oversimplification. Demand has to be sufficient for the manufacturer to make money. How much longer can a shrinking market of enthusiasts sustain a level of demand that makes sense for manufacturers to continue making toobs? DSP is cutting into that market every day and the technology is going to continue to improve. Even the cheap SS amps are getting better every iteration...

It isn't like some guy can pick up the slack and start making toobs in his garage on the weekends ;)
This post could have been written at any time over the last 20 years, some of it even older.

And yet, here we are and tubes are one of the hottest items on the market, with remarkable elasticity.
 

bobio

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This post could have been written at any time over the last 20 years, some of it even older.

And yet, here we are and tubes are one of the hottest items on the market, with remarkable elasticity.
"Hottest items on the market", based on what?
 

northernguitar

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"Hottest items on the market", based on what?
Nothing else in guitars has jumped so high in prices, with increasing demand. Agree this is based on geopolitical realities, but with production ramping up in China and now the US, becoming increasingly moot. The market will be flush again, and prices will settle.

The tube argument is old and they aren’t going anywhere.
 

bobio

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Nothing else in guitars has jumped so high in prices, with increasing demand. Agree this is based on geopolitical realities, but with production ramping up in China and now the US, becoming increasingly moot. The market will be flush again, and prices will settle.

The tube argument is old and they aren’t going anywhere.
That is called panic buying, nothing more. You could equate it to toilet paper...
 

northernguitar

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That is called panic buying, nothing more. You could equate it to toilet paper...
Toilet paper has inelastic demand, tubes are largely a luxury item. Yet, panic did set in. And when Chinese and US production is back online, the panic prices will seem absurd.

Tubes aren’t going anywhere soon.
 




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