/ Register

  1. Win a Broadcaster or one of 3 Teles! The annual Supporting Member Giveaway is on. To enter Click Here. To see all the prizes and full details Click Here. To view the thread about the giveaway Click Here.

When I turn my 5F1 Champ up to 12....

Discussion in 'Amp Tech Center' started by James Knox, Mar 7, 2021.

  1. Mar 7, 2021 #1
    James Knox

    James Knox Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    939
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2003
    Location:
    Phoenix
    ... I don’t really like the tone. I know, lots of guys like to “dime it” and “Rock n roll”. But for my ears, The distortion from 10-12 seems on the harsh and ratty side. For me, the sweet spot is around 7-8. Nice compression, great tactile response, etc.

    Maybe its from years of my ears acclimating to the sound of OD pedals hitting the amp on the edge of breakup. My 5 watt Champ sounds glorious on 7 with a Barber Gain Changer (Or my new Favorite, an old Tech 21 Oxford pedal, wow!) and a Carbon Copy Delay.

    I’ve noticed most Champ YouTube demos are done on Bridge pickups; Tele, Paul, Strat, etc. They all sound that way to me also. Ive never heard a Champ Demo with rich, creamy overdrive.

    I’ve researched old threads regarding Champs, biasing, voltages, dissipation, red plating, etc. I’ve experimented with higher voltage PT taps, different cathode resistors, different V1 resistors, etc, and always come back to stock values.

    Saw a recent YouTube where Premier Guitar John B is interviewing some famous Producer who says he has been using a Tweed Champ and a Tweed Tremolux for ALL guitar tracks lately. Some studio Ace Engineer told him, and now he share, that the secret to recording with “old tweed amps” is to NEVER turn them up over 3 or 4.

    What kind of playing experience are you getting with your Champ these days and what setting or set ups are your favorite?
     
    J. Bonkosky likes this.
  2. Mar 7, 2021 #2
    King Fan

    King Fan Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    6,388
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2013
    Location:
    Salt Lake City
    You're not alone. You can find folks who disagree (really? about an amplifier?? :D), but the majority opinion is Mr. Champ ain’t happy dimed. This is a little amp with a little OT and a little speaker. A Super Nova is not a bored and stroked big-block SS Chevelle. If it ain’t happening here by 10 or so, it ain’t happening...

    You have a lot of experience. You’re right: Trust your ears. :):):)
     
    theprofessor and James Knox like this.
  3. Mar 7, 2021 #3
    Phrygian77

    Phrygian77 Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Posts:
    3,122
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2016
    Location:
    Crawfordville, FL
    If you dime it, basically all you have is the grid leak left. A .022uF coupling cap and just 1M grid leak isn't a good recipe.
     
    gabasa and James Knox like this.
  4. Mar 7, 2021 #4
    Lowerleftcoast

    Lowerleftcoast Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,445
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2019
    Location:
    california
    There's more to the picture
    Than meets the eye
    Hey, hey, my, my

    Thank you, one fourth of a super group, N Young.
     
    zephyrR1, gabasa and James Knox like this.
  5. Mar 7, 2021 #5
    jman72

    jman72 Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,696
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2013
    Location:
    Central Florida
    I like mine best on 7-8 with a nice OD pedal pushing it. Glorious tone! Spent about two hours this weekend jamming through my buddy's old Rat through the Champ on 7 and it was fantastic!
     
    James Knox likes this.
  6. Mar 7, 2021 #6
    James Knox

    James Knox Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    939
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2003
    Location:
    Phoenix
    Here it is. The secret to recording “old tweed Fenders”

     
    gabasa, JuneauMike, jman72 and 1 other person like this.
  7. Mar 7, 2021 #7
    irie

    irie Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    710
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2014
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    I tend to agree, I think they sound best between 3-7ish. That being said slamming the front end with humbucker's when its cranked up to 12 is quite an experience.
     
    El Tele Lobo, jman72 and James Knox like this.
  8. Mar 7, 2021 #8
    gabasa

    gabasa Tele-Meister

    Age:
    49
    Posts:
    339
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2018
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    I don't dime anything, I like, "rich-clean," so 3-4 maybe on my tweed Fender-style amps.
    I only have tweed Fender-style amps.
     
    El Tele Lobo and James Knox like this.
  9. Mar 7, 2021 #9
    JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    6,870
    Joined:
    May 5, 2015
    Location:
    Alaska
    This is how I use mine. Between 3 and 4.
     
    James Knox and gabasa like this.
  10. Mar 7, 2021 #10
    J. Bonkosky

    J. Bonkosky Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    459
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Location:
    Seattle Washington
    I liked mine best set to the off position, unplugged, and set in the corner. Just could not get into it, too dark for my taste. But I have heard others do amazing things with those amps. I am pleased to hear yours works for you.
     
    MickM and James Knox like this.
  11. Mar 7, 2021 #11
    JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    6,870
    Joined:
    May 5, 2015
    Location:
    Alaska
    Maybe you should look into voicing your amp to your liking. That would be a fun project to read about.
     
    James Knox likes this.
  12. Mar 8, 2021 #12
    J. Bonkosky

    J. Bonkosky Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    459
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Location:
    Seattle Washington
    You are right that would be a fun project to read about. I did try this on a limited scale with varying degrees of success. To me the appeal of the tweed Champ is its simplicity. I was not interested in radically altering the circuit, cabinet, speaker configuration, or control layout. Ultimately I sold the amp to someone it was better suited to.
     
    James Knox likes this.
  13. Mar 8, 2021 #13
    screefer

    screefer Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    673
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2016
    Location:
    kildonan
    Could you elaborate or post a link regarding? Trying to learn, thanks.
    Sorry James
     
    James Knox likes this.
  14. Mar 8, 2021 #14
    Phrygian77

    Phrygian77 Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Posts:
    3,122
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2016
    Location:
    Crawfordville, FL
    When grid voltage nears zero, the input impedance drops. To put it as simply as possible, this causes a little dance (RC time constant) between the coupling cap and the input impedance.

    I highly recommend Merlin Blencowe's books. Akin partially explains it here, but he's primarily talking about this problem in the power amp, but the same principles apply to all tube gain stages.

    https://www.aikenamps.com/index.php/what-is-blocking-distortion
     
    screefer and James Knox like this.
  15. Mar 8, 2021 #15
    jimgchord

    jimgchord Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    47
    Posts:
    1,566
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    Location:
    victor,ny
    Yuck. They sound like crap dimed.
    4-5 is where its at
     
    James Knox likes this.
  16. Mar 9, 2021 #16
    El Tele Lobo

    El Tele Lobo Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    6,440
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Location:
    Florida
    I have a tweed Champ clone with a 12" ceramic speaker. I generally run it between 3 and 4...though sometimes as high as 7 (mine has no sound at all below 3) if I'm keeping the guitar volume up.

    However, I've also had good success with diming it but keeping the guitar volume rolled down to get a similar room volume as having it on 3-4 with the guitar turned up. I find this brings out more richness and complexity in the clean tones.
     
    James Knox likes this.
  17. Mar 9, 2021 #17
    2L man

    2L man Tele-Meister

    Age:
    61
    Posts:
    378
    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2020
    Location:
    Finland
    Measure power tube cathode resistor and voltages! Perhaps bias point is too off from A-class linear ooeration?
     
    James Knox likes this.
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.