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Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by cravenmonket, May 14, 2020.
When it's worth more than its original price...? Or maybe that's just 'collectible'.
Ry Cooder and David Lindley would proudly call their Teisco's vintage guitars.
Antique is usually 100 years old except for cars, which are classic at 20 and antique at 25. I always considered 30 years old vintage for guitars. I always thought that was a real standard in the music world. I guess not.
Vintage is just a fancy and flowery way to say used or old. I have a 77 Strat and a 76 Yamaha FG340. I do not say they are vintage. I just say they are my guitars that I have had for 44 years.
My wife was born in 1968.
About 20 years ago I sold a '68' Tele maple cap neck. I sure do miss her.
Anyone got one that they would trade straight up for a VINTAGE ex-wife?
The only reason I have guitars is because I have ex-wives.
Somebody we don’t care about scores a popular recording with a particular model, and suddenly, we care.
More accurately, we imagine a guitar will make up for our inadequacies, then it’s mojorific.
Go ahead, ask me about my pedal board
Yup. "Vintage" (used in this sense; let's no get pedantic) seems to mean not only "of a certain age" but also "of a certain perceived importance". Old Teisco guitars and the like weren't "vintage" until their looks became trendy and people started going nuts for old gold foil pickups. Before then they were just "my first guitar I got at Sears that played like crap".
It's weird to think of now, but there was a time you couldn't give Les Pauls away, which is part of why a generation of guitarists took to them; they were available and fairly cheap. If not for the music these guitarists created on those instruments and the way we still value that music today, the notion of a "vintage Les Paul" may have been a laughable malapropism rather than a retirement plan.
Our concept of vintage in this sense is not meaningless, but it is pretty arbitrary.
This reminds me of a sign I see from time to time: “We buy worthless old junk and sell priceless antiques.”
Likewise, I own many nice old vintage guitars. They’re much nicer than your old, beat-up, dinged-up, wrong-colored, poor playing guitars from approximately the same era.
Loved that quote...as did my wife who has been in the "antiques and collectibles" business for almost 30 years.
For cars it's like 25 years...
I don't need no vintage guitars to be a vintage guitar player.
Me: Vintage 1952.
I do have a 41 year old Strat and a 56 year old Vibroverb, however.
Is there a specific age? The vintage era for American electric guitars is the 50s and 60s. Acoustics is pre-war and some post.
Or is it more to do with classic years and/or eras in production? Yes: this is how 'vintage' is defined, it's not defined as 20 years or older, despite what some dude on craiglist thinks about his 1998 American Standard Strat.
Does it have to be a model which comes to be recognized as a particularly influential instrument? I think it's an instrument from the era. Again, the definition of vintage is that; a known era of superior quality.
Can a reissue ever become a vintage instrument in its own right? No, but I'd think that a 30 year old, vintage correct reissue could be a very desirable guitar.
I see people claiming that a '95 American Standard is now vintage because it's over 20 years old, it's rubbish. Vintage is from a known era of superior conditions or quality - the 50s and 60s guitars became vintage because of what was put out there in the 70s. I recently played a refretted 77 Strat which was very nice, but at €5k...? Nah
When you're shopping, it's vintage
When you're selling, it's old junk
When you are selling, you want vintage money.
When you are shopping, you want to pay old junk prices.
Same idea, different POV!
OH YES IT DOES! ...... sorry but your 5 year old signature, CS, odd color, Road-worn, limited edition, etc. Strat isn't "vintage" just cause you "love it" and pray it's worth more than you paid for it.
...in 20 minutes!
For REAL Vintage collectors or Vintage guitar / amp players, IT AIN'T VINTAGE if it's younger than the end of 1970's ... PERIOD.
Realistically though, it's really got to be older than 25 to 30 years old AND DESIRERABLE to a broad range of Vintage COLLECTABLE enthusiasts.
Just like a clean 1995 Mustang with a 4 banger isn't of any interest to anyone, your 1995 Made In Mexico / MIK (unless its a Pro Tone model) and especially a POS Made in China Strat, Tele, P-Bass, Epiphony Les Paul, etc ain't of interest to anyone either as a "Vintage" guitar.
Look, almost every guitarist (incl Bassists) wishes that they could afford a true Vintage instrument or amp and be "fab" like Joe Bonamassiveego or "has-been" Slash and have his huge collection of vintage axes. So save your money or just enjoy the the h3ll out of what you own and love to play. Maybe someday it will be old enough and desireable to be a "Vintage" guitar or amp.
Example of what's "Vintage" and what ain't despite the "old age"
A 1961 (first year) Gibson Les Paul Custom "SG" (mine, eat your heart out) is one of the most desirable post 1960 guitars. Worth over $30k now in minty condition. THIS is a "Vintage" guitar because it is desirable.
A "Norlin Era" 1988 SG (NOT ALL Norlin era Gibson's are crapp, but man this one as a great example of SG crappppppp.)
A Very-very Good "Norlin Era" Gibson, a 1981 Les Paul Standard (next to my 1958-1/2 Les Paul Jr.) because Norlin didn't screw around with much with the "bread n butter" income guitars like the LP Std and Customs, ES series guitars. But the LP Junior's, SG's and others suffered from cost cutting and Gibson trying to be trendy.
BASICALLY - "Vintage" boils down to 1) Age, 2) Desirability, and 3) Collectability by "collectors and players" so it MUST have a "special" desirable sound.
Right now early 1980's Fender Squiers MIJ and Fender Import Models BRANDED "Fender" (not Squiers) but "Made In Japan (ALL of these made by premier maker Fujigen Gakki (who also made Ibanez guitars) are "Hot Vintage Imports" and are VERY Desirable. Look are Reverb, other Vintage auction sites and EBay and these MIJ's are selling for Four Times their original retail store prices from 1983 to 1996.
1982 (pre-production run) "1983" Squier "1952" Telecaster MIJ Blonde Wash
1994 "Fender" branded "Squier Series" MIJ (Fujigen Gakki) 1962 series in Fiesta Red
1994 "Fender" (not a Squier) MIJ "JV" '62 Custom Model (full body binding) correct Candy Red Nitro finish. I've seen these go for over a $$grand on Reverb in recent years in 9.8-10 condition. Also made by Fujigen Gakki for Fender.
So, even slightly over 25 years old can be "vintage collectable" (small V) because it is legit oldish, very rare, desirable and has a wanted sound. But this is an unusable example. My 2-cents.
When current production is not as good as your old guitar, then that old thing becomes vintage because it’s a better vintage.
If you can get new guitars that are just as good, then it’s just old.
If it’s old and hardly played, it becomes notable but not really any particular vintage.
True that 20 minutes after purchase it’s used and the value drops!