When an improvement really isn't an improvement

[3-Chord-Genius]

I just purchased a Vox AC4C1-12 which is the AC4C1 with a 12" speaker instead of the standard 10". It sounds awesome, but I wanted to see how it would sound plugged into an Egnater 1X12 cabinet loaded with a Celestion 70/80 (basically the same thing as the Vox VX12). The Egnater cabinet is a good 3-4" deeper, and the sound was amazing - crystal clear highs, deep, powerful bass. Immediately I thought that this was a huge improvement over the combo by itself. BUT, it seemed to be missing something. Yes, it did sound BIGGER, but it sounded less "voxy" and there was something about the upper-midrange chimey compression that is missing with the larger cabinet and "bigger" sound. It sounded like any other good standard tube guitar amp, and not like the Vox that I purchased. Does this make sense to anyone else or am I just a nut case?

 

[elyuyi]

It's still a Vox so it should sound Voxy.

 

[Wally]

Different speaker = different sonics. Otherwise we would not have so many choices. Cab dimensions can also play a part, but 3/4" difference in depth will not totally change the sonics. The only way to know what changes the cab imparts would be to put the Vox speaker in the Egnater cab to see if that upper midrange chime stays or goes. What amp do you usually run through the Egnater cab? Have you tried running it through the Vox speaker?

 

[3-Chord-Genius]

Different speaker = different sonics. Otherwise we would not have so many choices. Cab dimensions can also play a part, but 3/4" difference in depth will not totally change the sonics. The only way to know what changes the cab imparts would be to put the Vox speaker in the Egnater cab to see if that upper midrange chime stays or goes. What amp do you usually run through the Egnater cab? Have you tried running it through the Vox speaker?

The Egnater cab is 3 to 4" deeper, not 3/4". From what I understand, the Vox VX12 speaker is a re-branded Celestion 70/80, which is what the Egnater cab contains. The point I was making was that by most accounts, the Egnater cab would be considered an improvement over the stock combo amp, but while it did sound much larger and clearer, much of the Vox characteristic seemed to disappear and while it did sound great, it sounded like any other good tube amp. In other words, some of what I perceived to be areas that could have used improvement were actually things that made it sound cool, and didn't realize it until those things were gone.

 

[Wally]

My bad on the dimensional error....that is quite a bit different. There is more room for some bigger wavelenghths to develop. The material of the two cabs will have a 'voice' as well.
and as always....'improvement' can beg a subjective thing...as you are experiencing here.

 

[dan40]

I purchased one of the Egnater 112 cabs last year to have an extension cab. Mine came stock with a Celestion Elite 80 which I was told is very similar to Celestion's Lead 80. Either way it's a great sounding cab with my bigger amps but doesn't sound as nice with my lower wattage amps. Did you install a 70/80 in yours or did it come that way?

 

[3-Chord-Genius]

I purchased one of the Egnater 112 cabs last year to have an extension cab. Mine came stock with a Celestion Elite 80 which I was told is very similar to Celestion's Lead 80. Either way it's a great sounding cab with my bigger amps but doesn't sound as nice with my lower wattage amps. Did you install a 70/80 in yours or did it come that way?

It's called the "Egnater Celestion Elite-80" but I remember reading an interview with Bruce Egnater and he said it was just a custom version of the 70/80 that Celestion made for that cab. I'm guessing it's pretty close. It is an excellent sounding cab.

 

[dan40]

I have the 70/80's in another cab and they seem a bit different. The Elite 80 in the Egnater cab also has a huge magnet to go with the 80 watt rating. I'll have to check into them a bit more. I really love the little Egnater cab though. It is very light weight but produces a very big sound with any speaker I put in it. I'd like to get a second one and make a mini stack with them.

 

[3-Chord-Genius]

I have the 70/80's in another cab and they seem a bit different. The Elite 80 in the Egnater cab also has a huge magnet to go with the 80 watt rating. I'll have to check into them a bit more. I really love the little Egnater cab though. It is very light weight but produces a very big sound with any speaker I put in it. I'd like to get a second one and make a mini stack with them.

Hmm... maybe I'll try the 70/80 in the Vox combo and see what happens....

 

[Frank'n'censed]

 

[srinivassa]

I purchased one of the Egnater 112 cabs last year to have an extension cab. Mine came stock with a Celestion Elite 80 which I was told is very similar to Celestion's Lead 80. Either way it's a great sounding cab with my bigger amps but doesn't sound as nice with my lower wattage amps. Did you install a 70/80 in yours or did it come that way?

This is true. The stock Rebel cab is an Egnater Elite 80, which is a very close copy of the Classic Lead 80. It will sound different from a 70/80, which is a cheap run speaker that is much maligned by Celestion fans.

 

[3-Chord-Genius]

This is true. The stock Rebel cab is an Egnater Elite 80, which is a very close copy of the Classic Lead 80. It will sound different from a 70/80, which is a cheap run speaker that is much maligned by Celestion fans.

I made an error - Bruce Egnater did indeed say that the speaker in that cab was a variant of the Classic Lead 80, not the 70/80 as I thought. Oh, and I tried installing it in my AC4C1-12 and it wouldn't fit. The magnet was hitting the transformer.....

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/in...d-80-and-an-elite-80-made-for-egnater.461624/

 

[Johnny Cache]

With any speaker box, size does make a difference in tone. One of the complaints I hear about small amps with 12" speakers is they sound boxy. The some what popular idea of replacing the 10" with a 12" speaker in a Princeton will change the sound for better or worse. Your ears are the only way to judge the difference good or bad.

 

[Ira7]

There is no doubt, none, that I will eventually build a new, more open back for my AC4C1-12, and try some poly filling. I ain't even gonna worry about tolexing it--just quality wood and using analine dye on it for the finish.

I'll still have the original back to fall back on, no pun intended, but to my tastes a speaker needs air. And the AC4C1-12 cabinet is just too damned shallow, not to mention totally closed.

And for a 4-watt amp, most of us just aren't into adding cabinets.

 

[johnnyha]

I can't seem to find the photo, but I saw a good mod for opening the cab of the AC4C112. The guy just removed the back panel, cut a horizontal section out of the existing back and left some tolex to wrap around the edges of the new top and bottom piece. Or cut the tolex at the edge and use some edging material to finish. Don't even need new screws if you cut it right I think. Then you edge, re-tolex the slat or reverse the de-tolexed slat and finish it, or make a new slat, then you can make a few holes and screw it back in to close it back up.

Be amazing in a pine cab tho…

EDIT: Oh it was an AC4TV but you get the idea… this might be doable in the AC4C112.

Here's another simililat to the AC4C112…

 

[Silverface]

One boutique amp maker also installs 6-8 vertical ribs on the back panel and an oval, offset hole. Examples I've heard are better sounding than closed-back or the usual two-panel open back configuration.

 

[johnnyha]

Yeh I guess I wouldn't be surprised that simply cutting a small section out of the back panel isn't the optimal sound choice. I have a 5W 6v6 with an oval hole and it sounds fantastic for it's size. If your good at cutting ovals it would be fairly straightforward with some tricky tolex work.