What's up with Jazzmaster Pickups?

Discussion in 'Just Pickups' started by zezone, May 10, 2020.

  1. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    881F9650-8A50-4822-BFD1-5DDF8AF42507.jpeg I don’t have an example of the thinner Leo era JM pickup but here are three versions of the alnico pole type.
    On the left is I think the 62 RI, next is the taller MIJ, and last is the VMod, followed by an actual Strat pickup for comparison.

    None of the current Fender JM pickups are just Strat pickups in a wider housing, though they say that often over at TGP.

    The two US versions pictured read over 8k resistance and are quite fat toned, but the V Mod has more cutting tone and also seems to have a wider dynamic response to pick attack. It goes just as dark and fat if you pick carefully further from the bridge, but it can get brighter quite easily even into ice pick tone.
     
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  2. Southpaw Tele

    Southpaw Tele Friend of Leo's

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    What’s the noise like with the VMods? My PV ‘65 equipped Jazzmaster is relatively quiet after I shielded the crap out of it. My Squier CV is noisy as heck, but pickups are hotter.


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  3. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I can't say it sticks out as being particularly noisy or quiet, about the same as my Esquires.
    No shielding in my guitars, I just stand or sit where it's quiet.
    The V Mods get a lot of hate on the net so used ones are pretty cheap.
    Really all used JM sub unobtanium pickups are cheap, compared to PAFs.

    I have a pair of the Fender Classic Playe JM pickups which are P-90 designs like the Squier (VM?), but your Squier CV has the traditional alnico rod magnet poles? I think the P-90 design might be more noisy.

    Also note that I have an Esquire style Strat with a single JM pickup at thew bridge so I get no hum cancelling setting with two running.
    I've made up a routing template in order to put JM pickups in the bridge position of other Tele styles because they just do it for me, even better than the Esquire did for the last 20 years or so.
     
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  4. cyclopean

    cyclopean Friend of Leo's

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    i hate it when people try to make offsets less like offsets. why would fender put the wrong pickups on that thing?
     
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  5. tamer_of_banthas

    tamer_of_banthas Tele-Holic

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    or how about the american performer jazzmaster w. strat style trem unit instead of the proper vintage design? the horror, the horror

     
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  6. cyclopean

    cyclopean Friend of Leo's

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    yeah seriously just get a strat.
     
  7. Antigua Tele

    Antigua Tele Friend of Leo's

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    From a physics standpoint, it's not possible for pickups to have varying dynamic ranges because there is nothing to run out of (voltage usually being the case). There might be an audible difference, but it would have to owe to some other cause. The roll off and/or the resonance of a pickup can make string scratching noises more or less audible, because those noises are of a high frequency.
     
  8. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Well I find this particular pickups' response to be a total mystery!
    I've never had a SC that was quite like it and I don't really enjoy the attribute, but I've been trying to work with it for a while hoping to get used to it.
    Generally I sort of agree with your viewpoint that same mags same physical configuration same coil wind nets same sound.
    Exceptions being specific gauss within the range of strengths of the magnet type, and possibly coil winding too loose or too tight resulting in loose coil or insulation breaks.

    Where a good number of buyers have reported that the V Mod JM pickup sounds like a Strat pickup, I actually put a rewound '72 Strat pickup (6.35k of 42awg) under the JM cover in this same guitar and it sounded as expected, with the tendency to ice pick but manageable tone that did not go as fat as the 8k 62 RI JM at 8+k.
    I even drilled out a blank JM cover for a Tele bridge pickup magnet spacing and put a Tele bridge pickup (either a '69 or a '71 wound to either 6.7 or 7.2 with 42awg) and that was as expected, a little fatter than the lower wind Strat and a little brighter than the higher wind JM. This is my typical single bridge pickup wired to a vol pot and the jack, so no other variables.
    And I set the height with the high E pole as close as reasonably possible to the high E, then the other side lower for volume balance between high and low E's.

    But in the same guitar, the V Mod is just as dark at the darkest tone I can pick and mute with the '62RI, while much brighter and more shrill than even the Strat pickup, when I accidentally pick a little less carefully nearer the bridge.
    The longer magnets would have a similar effect but they are no longer than Strat magnets.

    This one baffles me.
    And I've been experimenting with pickup swapping for 40 years, usually trying many pickups in any given guitar, and some same pickups in and out more than once.
    I prefer to get my range of tones from technique rather than switches, and this is the hardest to control tonally I've experienced in any SC pickup.
    AFAIK Fender put alternating mag types in the other V mods but all A5 in the V Mod JM.
    Maybe they lied and used some oddball mag type mix?
     
  9. Antigua Tele

    Antigua Tele Friend of Leo's

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    The wider coils have more inductance for the same DC resistance, because the loop area is larger. I think "sounds like a Strat pickup" might just be lower than expected inductance.

    On another forum, people are trying experiments to figure out the rate of sensitivity drop off as the distance from the pole piece increases, but the results are not real solid yet. If it turned out that a Jazzmaster pickup generated voltage as a result of a wider area of string movement, that would increase the bass and decrease the treble slightly, because the sum of flux change would be greater, but the "focus" upon smaller harmonic segments would become washed out, its analogous to increasing the size of the holes in a sifter.
     
  10. Fearnot

    Fearnot Friend of Leo's

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    If it's not a wide, flat coil with alnico polepieces, it's not a real Jazzmaster pickup. It's just something else disguised as a Jazzmaster pickup.

    I love real Jazzmaster pickups. Nothing else gives me those big, piano-like bass notes.
     
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  11. tamer_of_banthas

    tamer_of_banthas Tele-Holic

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    right and there is nothing wrong w. this. tom verlaine plays one ffs
     
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  12. zezone

    zezone Tele-Meister

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    Oh I had it finished by a local guy specializing in just that. His work is phenomenal. He uses an acrylic finish unless you ask for something else.
     
  13. merseymale

    merseymale Tele-Meister

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    Yup ya both right: he said “...has more body and sustain than any HB I tried” & NOT “...has more body and sustain than any OTHER HB I tried”:)
     
  14. merseymale

    merseymale Tele-Meister

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    is it pretty much accurate to say that you can make a Strat sound pretty much like JM? In which case you’re only deciding on one of the other based, largely speaking, on the shape of the body?

    Also is it the case that those MIJ JMs with Strat Pups lurking under the covers are able to sound legitimate..?
     
  15. merseymale

    merseymale Tele-Meister

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    :eek:Hey! Don’t knock it til ya tried it!! ;)
     
  16. merseymale

    merseymale Tele-Meister

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    Hurry-Up & get famous so I can buy ya Signature Fender!:D
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020 at 9:38 PM
  17. merseymale

    merseymale Tele-Meister

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    just W H Y DID Leo make such oversized bobbins for so relatively few windings?!:confused:
     
  18. merseymale

    merseymale Tele-Meister

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    This is just SO confusing?!

    I can kinda see why the Pup on the Far Left is a wide bobbin but it’s CRAZY what space is left on the other JMs!

    is the one on the Far Left likely to be what the 50s-60s JMs had..?
     
  19. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    No, the JM pickups Leo made were even thinner/ flatter and the coil was almost all the way out to the edge of the bobbin.
    I think the closest to the originals Fender makes now are fine, but not the original sound, which may not really be a better sound or even a good sound depending on what you want.

    I think Duncan makes a closer to original in the antiquity line.
    The current Fenders are a hotter coil wind too, so really a good deal warmer and fatter than the old thinner twangy tone.
     
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  20. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    He decided to make as far from the Strat and Tele bobbin shape as possible I guess, and with the maybe 1/8" tall space for the coil winding, the width filled up the width.

    Now they still make the same width because it's how we expect them to look.
    Parts that fit is good!
     
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