What's the reason musically that the beginning of 'Gimme Shelter' is so great?

Discussion in 'Tab, Tips, Theory and Technique' started by endlesssand, May 6, 2011.

  1. Bolide

    Bolide Friend of Leo's

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    The Oklahoma thing: The Stones were (as they often were ) ahead of the curve as this was breaking big in '69. Not for naught Leon and half the rest of the Tulsa Mafia performed on "Let It Bleed". Keef and Mick internalized the Oklahoma sound well, and were at the top of their game with this combination.
     
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  2. TCASTJOE

    TCASTJOE Tele-Meister

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    It's Keith's feeling,, his groove .... a defining moment.. I don't think you can break it down and tear it apart.. it just happened
     
  3. Tele-Champ

    Tele-Champ Tele-Holic

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    Excellent. Thanks for posting (or re-posting) this!

    Merry Clayton's voice breaking gives me chills..
     
  4. tonewoods

    tonewoods Former Member

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    Oh yeah!
    This disappeared for awhile, and I'm glad it's back for all to hear....
     
  5. Larry F

    Larry F Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    Sure, this is a valid idea. But, yet, some people are curious about how the music goes. What contributes to the pacing, the surprises, the contradictions. It doesn't matter a bit that Keith felt it a certain way at a certain time and created a groove. An analyst has the recording, frozen in time, that lets curious listeners consider how the different components sound and work together (and not together, which is really essential for great music, in my view). But if you don't believe that anything enjoyable or interesting can be gleaned by analyzing this, who am I to say that you are wrong in the belief? But your belief pertains to you, and not to me. Are you saying that your belief should be shared by everyone?
     
  6. endlesssand

    endlesssand Tele-Meister

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    There's always elements of expression.. phrasing... delivery, tone that are irrepeatable and also without possiblity of musical analysis.. (two people can play the same thing twice, one sounds great one sounds bad. However gimme shelter has a unique harmony and character to.. it may well be other people have done similar before and after.. but it's still interesting to delve into the key/modulations/chords/harmony/arrangement etc to see what makes it tick. Perhaps it'd be good to start with the key it's in.. or maybe even mode?
     
  7. piece of ash

    piece of ash Friend of Leo's

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    I tuned a guitar once to open E, goofed around, put it down.

    Some days later, I picked up the guitar, forgetting that I had it tuned to E, I played a standard E chord on top of this. I had to hit it a few times to realize that I was hearing one of the chords from the Allman Brother's Melissa. I popped back to standard tuning and replicated the chord I had heard... and then worked out the chords that followed.

    It occured to me that this may have been exactly how the Allman's stumbled onto what is basically a weird sequence. I'll bet a lot of what we hear is driven or inspired by little accidents like this.

    Another thing to consider is that for every track of a song you hear... there might have been 10 tracks that you didn't hear because they were written over.
     
  8. Bolide

    Bolide Friend of Leo's

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    That's my take on a lot of what Patrick Simmons came up with, happy accidents that he collected along the way and ultimately put to good musical use. Sometimes guitar playing can be empirical :confused:
     
  9. TeleGS

    TeleGS TDPRI Member

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    Great link - it really points out that it is all in the mix. There really isn't anything special on any track.
     
  10. DOGMA Dunn

    DOGMA Dunn Friend of Leo's

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    The tempo is in timing with the avg heart beat, so it is easy to get the audience in right from the start and change the temo up to get them motivated. That's why hip hop and dance music is successfull IMO. But the Sontes have guitar to do it.
     
  11. Mjark

    Mjark Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    It has to be in 2 keys doesn't it?
     
  12. slapshot

    slapshot Tele-Meister

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    referring to the intro to me it's along the lines of the diablos in musica,when you hear it you think evil,but it has an opposite effect of being almost hypnotic & very soothing bringing you,like phil spector used a lot,to a state of almost psychosis then the change happens wether it's up or down.
    I make sense with that to myself but i suck at explaining it

    great track though i love this version and love playin it live like this
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bljfxLN8d-c
     
  13. Alex W

    Alex W Friend of Leo's

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    I wonder how much they created that fantastic vibe in a live rehearsal setting? I think a lot of it has to do with all the band members listening to what they're doing, especially being sensitive to the overtones, and then letting that hypnotic effect take them over. It's what rock music is all about in my opinion. It can be spooky as hell and I suspect it is the reason that people have called it the devil's music, not that there is anything truly sinister about it.
     
  14. slapshot

    slapshot Tele-Meister

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  15. Larry F

    Larry F Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    The movie, Sympathy for the Devil, shows the Stones ploddingly putting the song together, which only caught fire after a lot of strumma strumma type stuff, as I recall. If you haven't seen it, it is amazing to watch the process.
     
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  16. Larry F

    Larry F Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    One goal of analysis might be to understand how the microcosms of expressive detail relate to each other, as well as to the more abstract levels of the music. Plenty of theorists do analysis solely for the sake of seeing what is going on. It's fun at any level.

    It may not be important how the musicians put it together, especially when considered from an expressive standpoint. But it could be important to consider why was it that those particular takes were used, or why listeners respond so positively to those particular takes. It makes sense to analyze why those little expressive nuances sound so appealing. I understand that some people think this is over-thinking or over-analyzing, but so what. To each his own and no one should judge another's interest in certain aspects of a piece of music.
     
  17. getbent

    getbent Telefied Silver Supporter

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    agree..

    and the little lick Keith lays down (the single note part) just brings you right into the song...
     
  18. jbmando

    jbmando Poster Extraordinaire Gold Supporter

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    What's amazing to me about the guitar in this song is when you listen to the isolated parts they sound kind of lame, almost, and sort of sloppy. Like the way you played back when you were 14, or something your dad's goofy friend played when the families got together and "played guitars." But when all the parts are there it just sounds cool as can be. I agree that the tremolo is perfect and the clean rhythm track is about as cool as it gets.
     
  19. Breen

    Breen Friend of Leo's

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    Its the driving drums, the pumping bass when the term pumping bass meant something, the lyrics and piano and guitar riffalogy, and the faint Mick Jagger (I think), going woooo! when Merry Clayton vox went into overdrive territory.
     
  20. Coop47

    Coop47 Poster Extraordinaire

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    That moment with Clayton is fantastic on its own, but Jagger's reaction is a nice punctuation. I really like listening to the isolated vocal track even though it freaks out my dog - everything is so tight without being processed. Great display of emotion coupled with musicianship. The isolated drum track was also a revelation to me. I never thought of Charlie as a really hard hitter, but his playing on that is surprisingly muscular.
     
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