Whatever happened to the zero fret?

[charlie chitlin]

Chet liked 'em!
Unfortunately, cheap-o Japanese companies in the 60s-70s liked them, too.
I think they just became symbolic of cheapness. Nothing could survive the guilt-by-association from being right next to those tension bars bolted to the headstock.

 

[BryMelvin]

I think the wear problem with a zero fret is minimal. I have an epiphone acoustic 12 string made in the Norlin era with a zero fret. I think it's a 71 or 73...can't remember without digging it out.

It's never been refretted and is used weekly for the past 25 years that I've owned it.

I use silk and steels on it though. That may help.

On the other hand...it WILL stop well meaning people from filing their nuts too deep and them bringing the guitar to me to replace the nut.

I've read somewhere Gibson is going back to using zero frets. If true that may be why.

 

[trev333]

It could have been the bean counters decision...

with no zero fret, every 21 teles you save enough frets to do another guitar.... ..multiplied by thousands... could be as simple as that... production costs.... ?

 

[kp8]

Chet liked 'em!

Now I know I will never like them.

It could have been the bean counters decision...

Can't imagine installing properly cut nuts was cheaper or easier than installing a zero fret.

 

[BigDaddyLH]

Wear? Get stainless.

 

[chezdeluxe]

Yeah but Selmer was a saxophone company. .

And Mario Maccaferri was a classical concert guitarist and luthier, trained in the art of string instrument making in the workshop of Italian master craftsman Luigi Mozzani. Instruments made by Maccaferri for his own use in the 1920s, before his association with Selmer which commenced in 1931, feature a zero fret.

Hermann Hauser, who built the guitar that Andres Segovia called "The greatest guitar of our epoch", was not averse to using zero frets.

It may also come as a surprise that (link removed), one of the most innovative luthiers of the modern era whose clients include Joni Mitchell, Steve Miller and Andy Summers also incorporates zero frets in his designs.

I don't think any of those luthiers lacked the skill to cut a nut. It is obvious that they made deliberate choices to use zero frets.

 

[DavidM1]

And Mario Maccaferri was a classical concert guitarist and luthier, trained in the art of string instrument making in the workshop of Italian master craftsman Luigi Mozzani. Instruments made by Maccaferri for his own use in the 1920s, before his association with Selmer which commenced in 1931, feature a zero fret.

Hermann Hauser, who built the guitar that Andres Segovia called "The greatest guitar of our epoch", was not averse to using zero frets.

It may also come as a surprise that (link removed), one of the most innovative luthiers of the modern era whose clients include Joni Mitchell, Steve Miller and Andy Summers also incorporates zero frets in his designs.

I don't think any of those luthiers lacked the skill to cut a nut. It is obvious that they made deliberate choices to use zero frets.

No, but that wasn't my point was it? My point was that because the zero fret has a durability issue most luthiers have avoided it and most companies founded by luthiers haven't used it much or at all.

Yes, it is well known that Maccaferri had guitar building skills and he wasn't much bound by standard practice. From his plastic guitars we also know he was much interested in the benefits of mass production. Who knows why he and Selmer opted for a zero fret?

I haven't and wouldn't argue that good luthiers didn't occasionally give it a go. Just because Hauser and Klein have done so doesn't mean much. Even if Segovia's famous Hauser had a zero fret (it didn't) it wouldn't mean much.

The fact is that over the life of the instrument a nut is a lot less problematic and justifiably popular with luthiers and players.

Were Klein's guitars much good? I always got the impression that his reputation was more for innovation than for lasting contribution but I've never played one.

 

[strogoff]

There's your answer. I think this issue was settled several hundred years ago. If you look at old European guitars you very rarely see zero frets. Luthiers have always done repair work as well and were conscious of durability. In making their own high quality instruments they tended to opt for well cut nuts in preference.

Stainless steel for the zero fret, nickel silver for the rest - problem solved?
Do i overlook something?

 

[chezdeluxe]

The fact is that over the life of the instrument a nut is a lot less problematic .

I think that you just made that up. I don't believe it to be a fact at all.

 

[drmcclainphd]

...so a zero fret walked into a nihilist convention...

...but the rest of the frets just kept on walking past it.

 

[DavidM1]

Stainless steel for the zero fret, nickel silver for the rest - problem solved?
Do i overlook something?

Perhaps we are in for new era.

 

[chezdeluxe]

Waiting for the facts

 

[DavidM1]

Waiting for the facts

Is it not self evident that it is easier to adjust or replace the nut than a fret? The nut is designed to be replaced.

Sure you can replace a fret but it is not quite as simple to adjust the height and there is the risk of chipping the fretboard. I understand that fret slots can widen with repeated replacements so it's not something you want to do too often. There isn't the same issue with replacing the nut.

Hey, if you want to believe working with frets is easier then go right ahead.

 

[ItchyFingers]

I had a 60s model Framus through the early seventies. It had a zero fret although I didn't know what a zero fret was at the time. A recent picture of the guitar headstock sent to me confirmed it did. It played pretty nice.
I don't see wear on the zero fret as a factor nor would I worry about fret slots getting too wide. There are ways around that. If I was building another would I put a zero fret in it? No. It may relieve some end tension and may sound a bit better when playing open notes or chords. It may even be the epitome of neck greatness. None of that is a factor in my less than desirable learning curve at present.

 

[PumpJockey]

I have a "lawsuit" Tele made for Elger in the Philly area (by the pre-Ibanez Hoshino Gakki company). It has a zero fret, which a lot of the Japanese builders seemed to like. It is from 1970 and shows no fret wear, although it is somewhat of a closet classic.

No comment on its effect on tone - the guitar sounds great but that is the funky Maxon pups and the crazy bridge - but it stays in tune as good or better than many of my other axes. Again, that may be that they spent some time getting the nut slots right and the tuners are solid.

 

[toomuchfun]

Waiting for the facts

Please don't hold your breath while waiting, we're all expressing opinions. Since they are still made both ways we can all get our choice and be happy, can't we?

 

[BigDaddyLH]

Stainless steel for the zero fret, nickel silver for the rest - problem solved?
Do i overlook something?

I don't have a dog in this fight but what about stainless steel for all frets, including fret 0?

 

[Miff]

I like zero frets but I remember a friend getting his first cheap guitar in the 70s and finding it had such bad intonation that just about anything played above first position sounded out of tune. It had a zero fret and the consensus opinion amongst our group of 13-yr olds was that the poor tuning must be due to the zero fret. None of our other guitars had them; we were ignorant and in those days there was no internet. So he ripped out the zero fret - and the intonation was no better (not much worse either). It was a really badly designed guitar, the kind of low quality rubbish that you just don't see today.

The point of my post is just that because zero frets were used on a lot of poor instruments in the past they may have gained an undeserved reputation.

 

[Speedy454]

I have an Epiphone acoustic from '71 with a zero fret. It works very well.

On the other hand, I have a Teisco Del Ray with a zero fret. If I bend a string below about the 7th fret, the string moves on the zero fret, causing all sorts of weird creaking noises. They put the nut a little too far from the zero fret allowing for side to side movement. Sure, it is fixable, but I rarely play it anyway.

 

[Tinman46]

I seem to recall a replacement nut with a fret built into it. Zero glide was the name. Relatively the same idea as the zero fret but could be installed on guitars that didn't have one. I've been tempted to try one on my Tele with the bigsby to see if it helped tuning stability.


image removed