Guitartom_ca
Tele-Holic
I bought a fender 65 deluxe reverb reissue amp a while ago. a friend said that i should upgrade to higher quality filter caps, should i do this? how will it affect the tone? thanks.
what will upgrading filter caps do on duluxe reverb?
- Thread starter Guitartom_ca
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muchxs
Doctor of Teleocity
Replacing the fresh but relatively nondescript caps in a recent DRRI with more expensive caps will have a single noticeable effect... your wallet will be lighter.
That's no excuse for limping along with the originals in a 40+ y.o. original Fender.
That's no excuse for limping along with the originals in a 40+ y.o. original Fender.
drmcclainphd
Tele-Afflicted
How long ago is "a while ago"? If your RI is still pretty new, the filter caps probably don't need replacing. If they do, you'll know because you hear a hum you can't get rid of.
Higher quality in what respect? You might be able to replace them with caps with a lower tolerance (say, 5% or 2% tolerance instead of 10%) and make it more exactly the way it was intended to sound. But if it sounds the way it should now, the ones you have may have values that are actually only 5% or 2% off "perfect" already. It's an expensive way to find out just how close your particular amp is to the intended specs.
Now, if he meant you CAN change them to other VALUES (not tolerances), certainly you can, and thereby change the character of your amp. Here's a thread by sme guys who really know their stuff about this. It's about a different amp design, but the concepts apply:
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/archive/index.php/t-1126397.html
If your RI is true to the original design, these guys talk about such an upgrade because better caps back in '65 were much larger and expensive than now. But if, as they say, Fender has put better caps in the RI than in the original, this "upgrade" has already been done. Some here may know about the RI and its caps. If not, try the Fender forums at fender.com. But again, it may change the character of the amp. If it's historically accurate and has the caps the original did, the upgrade may result in an amp that doesn't sound like the '65 at all.
Then again he may have just been talking about something he knows can be done in order to sound knowledgeable. Ask him what he meant by "better quality" and why he thinks your particular amp needs it. Perhaps he'll have some specific reasons with clear explanations. Even so, I'd get others' opinions that are familiar with that amp.
Higher quality in what respect? You might be able to replace them with caps with a lower tolerance (say, 5% or 2% tolerance instead of 10%) and make it more exactly the way it was intended to sound. But if it sounds the way it should now, the ones you have may have values that are actually only 5% or 2% off "perfect" already. It's an expensive way to find out just how close your particular amp is to the intended specs.
Now, if he meant you CAN change them to other VALUES (not tolerances), certainly you can, and thereby change the character of your amp. Here's a thread by sme guys who really know their stuff about this. It's about a different amp design, but the concepts apply:
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/archive/index.php/t-1126397.html
If your RI is true to the original design, these guys talk about such an upgrade because better caps back in '65 were much larger and expensive than now. But if, as they say, Fender has put better caps in the RI than in the original, this "upgrade" has already been done. Some here may know about the RI and its caps. If not, try the Fender forums at fender.com. But again, it may change the character of the amp. If it's historically accurate and has the caps the original did, the upgrade may result in an amp that doesn't sound like the '65 at all.
Then again he may have just been talking about something he knows can be done in order to sound knowledgeable. Ask him what he meant by "better quality" and why he thinks your particular amp needs it. Perhaps he'll have some specific reasons with clear explanations. Even so, I'd get others' opinions that are familiar with that amp.
BartS
Friend of Leo's
Caps with lower esr or higher ripple current if you were looking at the data sheet would be what you were looking for or you can jut buy some F&t caps and call it a day. It will make the notes sound clearer, sweeter, more defined. You will be able to hear a lot more of the transients. I know muchxs just said your wallet but ship him a gift box axial Illinois or jamicon caps see if he starts using them building amps then puts his name on it.
muchxs
Doctor of Teleocity
Urban Legends forming here:
Those "really incredible original parts" have some incredibly sloppy tolerances. When it came to electrolytic capacitors aka "filter caps" Sprague made leaps and bound developing capacitor technology at their North Adams plant in the late '60s. They evolved capacitors out of the relative Dark Ages of the '50s and built parts suitable for military and aerospace applications.
The tolerances on some mid- '60s capacitors were -20%, +80%. As far as any particular sonic intent goes Fender used big chunks of tube manufacturer's example circuits almost verbatim.
Let's not promote Urban Legend. The difference between the best electrolytic capacitors and the "worst" is primarily cost when they're new. The good stuff tends to last longer and age gracefully while the cheap stuff doesn't. You're right, though. I won't be using Illinois or Jamicon any time soon.
Those "really incredible original parts" have some incredibly sloppy tolerances. When it came to electrolytic capacitors aka "filter caps" Sprague made leaps and bound developing capacitor technology at their North Adams plant in the late '60s. They evolved capacitors out of the relative Dark Ages of the '50s and built parts suitable for military and aerospace applications.
The tolerances on some mid- '60s capacitors were -20%, +80%. As far as any particular sonic intent goes Fender used big chunks of tube manufacturer's example circuits almost verbatim.
Let's not promote Urban Legend. The difference between the best electrolytic capacitors and the "worst" is primarily cost when they're new. The good stuff tends to last longer and age gracefully while the cheap stuff doesn't. You're right, though. I won't be using Illinois or Jamicon any time soon.
Crobbins
Friend of Leo's
(link removed)
Johnny Cache
Former Member
^
THIS.
I did replace the Illinois Caps in my DRRI amp it wasn't because they were old or bad. Yet I heard a few years ago there were some bad Caps coming from China or Korea, and the Illinois caps are made somewhere over there. My amp had a hum coming from it and thought it might be the Caps. Wrong, it was coming from the Power Tranny. However, I'm glad I put in better Caps when I upgraded the Tranny to a Hammond, got rid of the hum. And, why not upgrade the Caps when your already inside the amp. I think if your amp is working fine I'd leave it alone, not much reason to change them for a long time. If you do, I recommend K&F caps they are well made and reasonable priced.
cedarblues
TDPRI Member
If you DRRI sounds fine and no hum then leave it alone... you could always look under the dog house and inspect the caps. If they look anything like what I found in my 10 year old Fender Vibroverb then get rid of them!
Those IC caps don't really last, but if they're in good shape no need to replace them.
I went with F&T caps and the amp just sounds "healthier". Everything sounds cleaner, more tight bass and clean bright tone.
Those IC caps don't really last, but if they're in good shape no need to replace them.
I went with F&T caps and the amp just sounds "healthier". Everything sounds cleaner, more tight bass and clean bright tone.
Johnny Cache
Former Member
If you DRRI sounds fine and no hum then leave it alone... you could always look under the dog house and inspect the caps. If they look anything like what I found in my 10 year old Fender Vibroverb then get rid of them!
Those IC caps don't really last, but if they're in good shape no need to replace them.
I went with F&T caps and the amp just sounds "healthier". Everything sounds cleaner, more tight bass and clean bright tone.
I'd say you did the right thing.
I had the same caps in my DRRI, but they didn't look bad like those. I understand there was a bad batch of Illinois caps about 10 years ago from China or Korea (junk). I changed mine when I was in the amp replacing the Power Tranny, upgraded to a Hammond PT and K&T caps, I'm glad I did.
backline
Tele-Afflicted
For what my opinion is worth.....the above about sums up all there is to say on the topic.
Fender DID buy a bunch of "bad" caps several years ago. Mostly the 22-450 I believe.
IC Caps got a bad rep for that...but it was not their fault.
A LONG story...but some ex employees of a company stole/counterfeited/messed up the formula ... and Sold A Bunch of bad E-Paste to IC.
I have used their caps for years with no problems.
