What was CCR's problem? They were so good and their music

[charlie chitlin]

I love Creedence.
I never heard them referred to as CCR until that K-Tel album hit TV.
My first LP was Cosmo's Factory and, for the sake of paying tribute, my first CD years later.
My wife loves the songs, but struggles with JFs vocal affectations.
I get it.
Woikin' for the man...

 

[P Thought]

Tom is on record saying "I can sing, John has a sound."

What a compliment!! But it's not for everyone.

I always thought that amazing voice was doctored somehow electronically. No. He has a sound for sure.

I still have most of the vinyl records from my youth, and those big four Creedence ones are among my favorites.

 

[yegbert]

Good memories!

 

[Tarkus60]

I saw fogerty a few years back. man that was one the best show I have ever been to, and I have been to a bunch.
And guess what ?
It starting raining during who'll will stop the rain!!!! The show was in Indy at the white river park.

 

[ZackyDog]

 

[Throttleneck]

I love Creedence.
I never heard them referred to as CCR until that K-Tel album hit TV.
My first LP was Cosmo's Factory and, for the sake of paying tribute, my first CD years later.
My wife lives the songs, but struggles with JFs vocal affectations.
I get it.
Woikin' for the man...

Funny, I was just thinking this. It is also the first album I ever owned. Love them.

 

[kctelegas]

Creedence was the first concert I attended. My friend's mom took us--I think we were in the 8th grade.
I read Fogerty's autobiography after seeing a discussion about it here (better at songwriting than prose, IMO).
I Googled concerts for that year and found out that I saw them two weeks before they split. The acrimony must have been off the charts by that point, but I thought it was great--what did I know?
Tony Joe White and Freddie King were on the same bill.

 

[maxvintage]

It seems to me john Fogerty was a control freak. He had a vision, he wrote good songs, he knew what he wanted to hear; he wanted the others to do what he told them to do. Execute the vision. I'm sure it was a difficult position for him. He had his finger on the pulse of the pop market for a few really good years. He had the work ethic: the other guys just didn't get it! I'm sure that's how he saw it, and maybe that's how it was. Would it have killed him to let the other guys get a song or two on the album? Would it have killed him to sing somebody else's song?

it's amazingly petty that on the last record he refused to play or sing. His voice was key to the formula that made them successful. I'm sure the other guys saw him as an egotistical jerk and they weren't wrong either

 

[Wildcard_35]

Some folks might think of the CCR story as a sad one, but I'd trade places with them in a second (except the one that died). Lots of hits, touring the world, making a living as a musician? Cry me a river!

It certainly sucked about the contract that wouldn't allow John to perform his CCR songs for a while, but he's still out there kicking out the jams and not working a desk job, just sayin'.

 

[stratisfied]

John Fogerty is absolutely an incredibly talented man, no one on any side of any of the CCR lawsuits/infighting/bad mojo denies this. He's got one of the all time great rock 'n' roll singing voices, and the songs he wrote for CCR in the '60s are among the greatest rock songs ever written. Sadly, he's also a world-class control freak who is absolutely willing to cut off his nose to spite his face.



The rights were part of the contract he signed in 1969. No one put a gun to his head, he thought he'd negotiated a good deal for himself and it turned out he'd taken a banana to a gunfight. Somehow, he's managed to blame this on everyone except himself.

He was never, at any time, not allowed to perform his music publicly. He says he chose not to do so because he didn't want Saul Zanetz making any money off it, which wouldn't have happened in any case. I honestly don't know if he's just ignorant about how the music business works, or if he's just trying to garner sympathy by making himself out to be the victim.




He and Tom disagreed about business, it's not like Tom stole his wife or murdered his kids or anything. I like to think that if my brother was dying, I'd have the grace to say something like "hey, I didn't come here to fight about this crap again, you're my brother and I love you and that's what matters. Remember how we used to catch frogs by the creek?"

Evidently that was beyond John Fogerty.



This isn't true, either. When your band plays "Green River" at your local pub, do you cut a check to anyone? Zanetz made the exact same money from the PROs like ASCAP and BMI whether Fogerty played those songs or not. John Fogerty has said a lot of misleading things over the years, and I'm not sure if he actually believes them or if he's trying to portray himself as a victim of others, not just his own bad decisions.



Clifford and Cook's version is that by 1971 Fogerty was complaining of burnout (I mean jeez, he'd written and recorded six albums in three years in addition to touring, and was getting divorced) so they offered to help out by writing a couple songs for the new record (I'm sure the additional publishing money they stood to make was only an afterthought). Instead, Fogerty insisted that they each write 1/3 of the album and that he wouldn't do anything other than play rhythm guitar on their songs (and in the end he didn't). When they balked, Fogerty said he'd quit the band if they didn't agree. I imagine the truth is somewhere in the middle between their version and his, but no one could have thought Mardi Gras was a good idea. It seems like Fogerty was trying to make a point by publicly shaming his bandmates, and wound up crapping all over CCR's legacy in the process.



Ultimately, Creedence Clearwater Revival is a cautionary tale of what happens when four starry-eyed childhood friends take on the world and win, only to be undone by money and ego.

Nah, it's just a real world example of what happens when equity and inclusion take priority over merit. John Fogerty proved he was Creedence Clearwater Revival and the others were just sidemen.

 

[bumnote]

A few years ago I read an interview with Stu and Doug about the end days of CCR. It was a far more rational and realistic account than anything I've heard from John.
Some of the points they brought up...
Repeatedly telling John to hire attorneys and business people to deal with band business. Either Doug or Stu had a business degree...good advice. John made all the business decisions.
Telling him NOT to get involved in that tax scheme.
With Mardi Gras they asked to get some of their songs on an album...just like Tom. John's way of dealing with that was...fine, I'm only playing rhythm guitar and not helping with the writing process.
I'm very sure John, Stu, Doug and Tom ALL had and have very valid complaints with each other....but Forgerty spent decades constantly whining about those three like a jilted teenager.
If I can find it I'll post the interview, I wouldn't take it as gospel...but it really helps complete the narrative for both sides.

 

[beyer160]

Nah, it's just a real world example of what happens when equity and inclusion take priority over merit.

Wow, talk about an ideology looking for a set of facts to apply itself. Your personal boogeyman is in no way applicable to this scenario.

Or,

“If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.”
-Maslow

 

[beyer160]

A few years ago I read an interview with Stu and Doug about the end days of CCR. It was a far more rational and realistic account than anything I've heard from John.
Some of the points they brought up...
Repeatedly telling John to hire attorneys and business people to deal with band business. Either Doug or Stu had a business degree...good advice. John made all the business decisions.
Telling him NOT to get involved in that tax scheme.
With Mardi Gras they asked to get some of their songs on an album...just like Tom. John's way of dealing with that was...fine, I'm only playing rhythm guitar and not helping with the writing process.
I'm very sure John, Stu, Doug and Tom ALL had and have very valid complaints with each other....but Forgerty spent decades constantly whining about those three like a jilted teenager.
If I can find it I'll post the interview, I wouldn't take it as gospel...but it really helps complete the narrative for both sides.

In fairness, I can understand why 50 years later, Clifford and Cook might want to massage the facts a bit to make themselves not look so bad. There's an interview from 1971 where Cook talks about being sick of CCR being seen as John Fogerty and his sidemen, and that the band was "making changes to fix that". Now, I don't imagine he envisioned John Fogerty being such a petulant dick as to destroy the band over it, he was probably thinking he and Doug were each going to get a filler song on the next album (as much as I love CCR, they had their share of those). That would have helped reduce the workload on John Fogerty, and given Clifford and Cook a little bump in their pay envelopes so win-win, right?

Right?

As with all these kind of stories, there's his side, her side, and the truth.

But yeah, John Fogerty spending the next five decades whining about what jerks the other guys in the band were makes him seem a little... "high maintenance."

 

[rand z]

I opened for Southern Pacific circa '90 in St. Joseph, MN.

Stu Cook was their bass player, Keith Knudsen drummed, John McFee guitar/pedal steel and keyboardist who's name I can't remember.

After the show we sat around and talked (members of both bands).

I mentioned Fogerty and they all snickered... especially Stu Cook.

He then said "John is just John."

And, they all nodded their heads.

imo.

 

[tele_pathic]

I love, LOVE CCR, but I also recognize that a lot of their songs use the same formula, and once you've heard one or maybe five of their songs, you've kind of heard them all. But man, those five sounds across the entirety of their discography are stunning!

 

[omahaaudio]

John Fogerty's voice is INCREDIBLY annoying.
Many of his songs were pretty good, though.

 

[stratisfied]

Wow, talk about an ideology looking for a set of facts to apply itself. Your personal boogeyman is in no way applicable to this scenario.

Or,

“If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.”
-Maslow

Explain the abject failure of the Mardi Gras album in any other terms. I'd love to hear it. Bandmembers are not equals when it comes to talent and I can just imagine John Fogerty, after all the bickering from the "other musical geniuses" in the band, holding the door to the studio open and with a sweep of the arm gesture saying "Here's your big chance. Show me what you got."

Egos are understandable if you have the substance to back it up, inexcusable when you don't.

 

[omahaaudio]

.... he only mismanaged them...

Come on... John Fogerty, while being a fantastic 20th Century popular songwriter, couldn't manage his way out of a wet paper bag. He gave away the rights to his own CCR songs and then spent decades complaining about it. Ever hear of getting a lawyer, Johnny boy? Dave Clark (Dave Clark Five) left school at 15 and was STILL smart enough to own the copyrights to his songs and ALL of the groups master recordings.

 

[omahaaudio]

John Fogerty must have an ego the size of the lower 48.

True.

Not reconciling with his dying brother is inexcusable as a human.

True.

Also lost a lot of personal respect for Elliot Easton for playing in Creedance Clearwater Revisited.

I find it hard to criticize Easton for that. It was probably just a well-paid gig with songs that were easy to play.

 

[omahaaudio]

Yeah and what happened to The Doors?

Yeah!

How come Blind Faith was not as huge as Pink Floyd?

Yeah!

Why did Guns N Roses dominate while The Butthole Surfers languished?

Hell yeah!