What to do when joining a band and 1 member is probably not ready?

[Cosmic Cowboy]

I don’t think you ever said what the intention of the band is. That would make a big difference. If its all hometown backyard keggers and a few pub nights, thats a pretty different thing than if they are an aspiring touring act, and would seem to dictate your response.

I understand that no matter what, if the guy doesn’t have an ear or a clock, that might not be enjoyable or easy to play with, but at least he’s not on the bass.

I appreciate all the feedback from a group of fairly honest guitar players.

The goal is paid gigs. The rodeos and fairs, some corporate functions and doing some sets opening for touring acts.

The singer/songwriter (who is extraordinarily talented...sounds like a cross between Waylon and Hank Jr) has many years of experience doing just this. His lead guitarist moved out of the area this year and this guy has been on as rhythm for about 2 years. They both know he cannot hack it alone.

Thats why I am there. I can. But they are keeping him out of loyalty and again, hes a heck of a njce guy.

But i dont think we need 2 electrics. Id rather have a steel player. Anyhow, its NOT MY project...but at the same time, I hate sounding less polished with 2 guitars than we could by eliminating a weak link.

Just pondering the ifs....

 

[68tele]

"Not sure if the other members are really noticing just how much he goobers up the sound."

Ask. Take it from there.

 

[Ian Wilson]

I was in a band many years ago with a similar situation.
We we’re all ‘GOOD’ mates and nobody wanted to be the bad guy and tell him he couldn’t hack it…….
So, we didn’t tell him, we all covered for him in what ever way we could ……….. we never made the big time BUT ……..
WE WERE ALL STILL MATES.

Answer being, what do you want ?

If replacing him makes the band better, it may catctch on and the drummer gets replaced……then the bass player…
how long before ‘ YOU ‘get replaced to make the band better ?
IT HAPPENED TO ME………

 

[985plowboy]

We cannot tell you what it will be like.

Try it out.
Try to help.
Perhaps it will be awesome!
If it doesn’t happen, ask yourself “how badly do I want to be in a band right now”?

Report back, we are curious.

 

[bluesfordan]

I said I was practicing hard. Every day. I'm not even wasting any time on the internet ...

oh.

yeah, um, about that. I was just checking my email and happened to see this thread on the 13th page. Really, it wasn't more than 30 seconds of surfing.

 

[brookdalebill]

A few years ago I was asked to join, and front a band.
The band had a regular (bi-weekly) 2 night stand at a local catfish restaurant.
The pre-existing band had a great drummer (and an old friend), a ridiculously talented Hammond organ player/singer, and a sax player.
The sax guy became a problem for me early on.
He was just plain clueless at learning anything he didn’t already know.
You could give him the key, even translate it into the B flat horn key, and he wouldn’t get it.
He also (cluelessly) honked and bleated over intros played by the organ player or myself, insisted on being mic’ed (he was too loud un-mic-ed), and generally drove me nuts.
After about 4 gigs, I told the drummer I had to split.
Sax-buddy was driving me nuts.
They fired him, and kept me.
This is not normal behavior from me.
I make a valiant effort to go along/get along 99% of the time.
Anyways, I cannot, and will not (attempt to) play with a saboteur.

 

[Old Plank]

We were starting a band that was going to be playing quite an eclectic mix of genres and styles, and the friend to play bass was a decent guitarist but had never played or owned a bass. So he went out and bought a fretless Ric bass. That went understandably shaky, so we suggested he get together a few times with another friend who's a great bass player, and he not only didn't want to do that but also acted kinda mad that we would ask that of him. There ensued lots of uneasy debate among the rest of us as to how to proceed given the situation, and all of us being friends and all, and then boom I broke my left thumb skiing in a half-pipe, and the infant band went on hold for a half-year or so ... by the time we reconvened, the other bass player was now available to be in the band himself, we couldn't pass that up so we went with him, and I told the the first guy ... which didn't go over well at all, a lot of resentment, and to this day seems to be an issue between us. But the resultant quartet went on to play 20+ great, fun years, so there's that.

Anyway, so there's that option for what to do ... somebody break a bone or two

 

[Dog Bite]

Take up a collection and pay the guy to go away. It worked for me. When the pot got to $200 I just took the cash and left.

 

[Mindovermatter62]

This happened to my last group[in the Eighties]we had a bass player who couldn't play]so we replaced him.. can't let non talent cost you money...the show must go on!!

 

[keithb7]

Forming a band with musicians like the OP describes can be frustrating for many years. How old is this rhythm player? How long has he been playing guitar.

At age 60, been playing for 25 years doesn’t mean he/she is good. Could have bad habits. Little to no known music theory. Doesn’t understand what being in the right “key” actually means. Struggles to shuffle/swing around a 4/4 straight beat. Pick 3 proper notes of a chord. Can’t do it. An underdeveloped ear that doesn’t hear sour notes and repeats them. Has not sat home enough with rhythm loops in various keys, and jammed by himself.

A few years down the road, he’s still a good guy and a real friend. Stuck still with these music hurdles. How do you overcome it? Not easily sometimes.

 

[Tom Grattan]

If one players meter is sketchy and the rest of the band either doesn't hear it or just goes along with it that means you'll have to address the entire band. If the band isn't interested in making changes that's your answer. On the other hand if you like the people and want to play with them use a positive approach, pointing out each player +'s and giving encouraging feedback. If you do this I hope you have thick skin as the first human response to this situation is defensiveness so you have to be patient. IMO don't spend a lot of time on this unless you're committed to them. If a player isn't up to snuff with the rest of the band it brings the whole thing down.

Good Look, Rock On

 

[String Tree]

I have been asked to join a new band. I really do like the fellas and they are all good players in their own right....except for one player who is supposed to be playin rhythm guitar.

I like the guy too. Nice dude. Fun to hang with. I just dont think he is ready to play out with this ensemble. I have never bought into the 'rhythm' player being the member of the band who is not a capable enough player to be a lead player.

Rhythm is soo important. Everything sounds better when he doesnt play anything. His guitar isnt quite in tune. His chord voicings are sloppy and muddy. His sense of timing isnt quite...well...rhythmic.

Not sure if the other members are really noticing just how much he goobers up the sound.

How should this be handled? Thanks.

Time to put on your Diplomat Hat.
Tiptoe your feelings to the others.
If they don't care, you HAVE to ask yourself if YOU care!

You have to a little bit selfish.
What is in it for you?
At some level, there has to be something.

Good luck with this.
I get the impression you are trying to go with the flow and, you don't want to cause trouble.
~ST

 

[Gaylord Amsterdam]

Flip the script, what if you were that guy? How would you want to be treated? We were all "dead weight" at some point in our Oddesy, but someone took a chance on us

Hendrix, Beck, Page, all were once the weak player in the band.

 

[TokyoPortrait]

Hi.

"Spectrum" seems to be fashionable these days. Everyone, everything and their dog is on one. Same here I guess.

A spectrum of how good/bad this person is, how good/bad the others are, of how much each wants to succeed, of what they think is acceptable, bearable, preferable, etc. On and on.

Spectrum of advice too, x a spectrum of unknown facts and possibilities about the situation that might be influencing things.

So, dunno.

But, having said that, I like the idea(s) mentioned earlier of identifying the various issues and tackling them in order of easier to fix to hardest to fix. Also, considering which ones can be addressed as 'reflective group discussion' rather than 'one person vs another.'

So, the recording of a practice and sitting down together to generally discuss what's going on sonically and how things could improved would / could be an easy start - a 'Hey, we're in this together to do as well as we collectively can' approach might work. And be a doorway to more trickier to deal with issues.

As someone else mentioned too, keep us posted. I find these kinds of threads can sometimes throw up stuff that's helpful in other situations.

Pax/
Dean

 

[Trenchant63]

When I was young and in a wedding band, a very well known musician in town - highly respected, subbed on keys that night. I was kind of green playing with these guys and while I was trying to tune, the drummer/band leader counted off the first tune of the night and off we went. I was in tune with myself but a smidge flat vs the rest of the band. At the break - this musician came up to me “we need to talk .. you were out of tune with the rest of the band.” I explained that the drummer counted off before I could finish. His response “so stop him! Make sure you are ready before it starts - it’s unprofessional to be even a little flat - get it done!” No sugar coating - straight up feedback. It stung and I was a little put off by it, but he was right and I learned. I realize now he cared enough to give me feedback vs telling the band leader “drop this guy - he’s unprofessional.” After he delivered the feedback, he complimented some of the ideas I was playing out there - he was just an ultimate professional. Now I look back fondly on the experience. Be straight with him and say he is not tight with the drummer and he needs to step it up and that you want to help him. I’ve noticed at times some pretty good players go off into their own world playing and stop listening to what is happening around them. That concept is alien to me, but I’ve seen it a number of musicians.

 

[Mjark]

The goal is paid gigs. The rodeos and fairs, some corporate functions and doing some sets opening for touring acts.

The singer/songwriter (who is extraordinarily talented...sounds like a cross between Waylon and Hank Jr) has many years of experience doing just this. His lead guitarist moved out of the area this year and this guy has been on as rhythm for about 2 years.

The band leader can't really be very serious if the other guy is as bad as you describe him.

 

[Donnie55]

Record a rehearsal play it back and wait for his response.. If he thinks he`s nailing it fire him. On the other hand if he hears the problems and owns up to them ,then at least try to get him up to snuff.

 

[Lou Tencodpees]

If this guy is a tight friend of the band and you're the new comer then I think your perception (assuming it is correct) is a dead end. In these situations blood is most often thicker than talent.

That's been my experience anyway.

 

[Gaylord Amsterdam]

I just want to say, If the band was happy before you got there and you stir the pot, that's not cool, maybe just find a band you are 100% happy with and leave these cats alone, sometimes there are more important things in a band dynamic than being a "good player"

I'd rather see a happy band with less musicianship than a technicaly proficient band that has no soul, I don't know this player but if they like him despite his musical shortcomings he may very well be the soul of the band

 

[telequacktastic]

I'd look for another band. When it's good it's good, when it's not it's not.