What (non-stock) speaker is in my 1972 Princeton Reverb? Should I spend/waste some money on a new one?

itsGiusto

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I bought this SF Princeton Reverb in 2015, and it's always been good. I modified it to BF specs a few years ago. The speaker sounds fine to me, and I'm sure it is fine:


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20220524_154653.jpg

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As far as I can tell, I think I read somewhere that this Sica company used to make speakers for Mojotone (and also Jensen). So I think this might be a 10" Black Beauty (thus the BB), which I know little about.

Like I said, I like the speaker just fine. But I'm always into trying to get the most vintage-appropriate sound when I can. Weber is having a sale right now, so I'm considering buying a 10F150 (or maybe a 10F125?), just because I've always considered it. The goal would be to get something closer to what was in the amp originally, something closer to a vintage Jensen.

Does anyone know anything about the speaker I currently have? Would the Weber 10F150 or 10F125 be much different from it? Or would it just be a waste of money?
 
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AntonyB

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I think Weber suggests the 10F150T… I am using that one and it is great on my 72 Princeton
I do run the Princeton at a bit lower wall voltage ~115… sounds better to my ears (using a variac)

And sorry, no experience with your current speaker
 

archetype

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I bought this SF Princeton Reverb in 2015, and it's always been good. I modified it to BF specs a few years ago. The speaker sounds fine to me, and I'm sure it is fine:


View attachment 986690
View attachment 986691
View attachment 986692


As far as I can tell, I think I read somewhere that this Sica company used to make speakers for Mojotone (and also Jensen). So I think this might be a 10" Black Beauty (thus the BB), which I know little about.

Like I said, I like the speaker just fine. But I'm always into trying to get the most vintage-appropriate sound when I can. Weber is having a sale right now, so I'm considering buying a 10F150 (or maybe a 10F125?), just because I've always considered it. The goal would be to get something closer to what was in the amp originally, something closer to a vintage Jensen.

Does anyone know anything about the speaker I currently have? Would the Weber 10F150 or 10F125 be much different from it? Or would it just be a waste of money?

Email CJ at Weber, tell him what the amp you have, what your tonal goal is, and ask him for suggestions. [email protected]
 

2L man

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Jensen C10Q reissue sound very good with Fender amps and IMO buying it is well spent money. It can take full power what the 6V6 push pull amps produce. However its sensitivity is lower end of all 10" speakers which is good if you admire over driven tube sound but there can come limits if more volume is needed.

To me Jensen Alnico RIs sound bit sweeter than Ceramic RIs. C10Q Ceramic has low count ribbed cone. Possibly because of the smooth cone P10Q make it sound even "too vintage" but there is is best speaker I know.

Sica is parent company for Jensen and that black speaker might be C10Q?
 

itsGiusto

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Sica is parent company for Jensen and that black speaker might be C10Q?

It would be the C10N if anything. The voice coil on it is 1.5", like the N. On the Q it's 1.25"

I think I'm more interested in Weber speakers. I've had good experiences with them, and I heard that they're closer to the vintage Jensens than the modern Jensens are.
 
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itsGiusto

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If you are happy with your current speaker, I'd leave it be... 😀
But who knows what sonic bliss I'm missing out on. There could be a speaker that's even better. I'm no expert on speaker sounds, so I don't know too well whether this speaker is good, great, average, bad, etc.
 

schmee

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I bought this SF Princeton Reverb in 2015, and it's always been good. I modified it to BF specs a few years ago. The speaker sounds fine to me, and I'm sure it is fine:


View attachment 986690
View attachment 986691
View attachment 986692


As far as I can tell, I think I read somewhere that this Sica company used to make speakers for Mojotone (and also Jensen). So I think this might be a 10" Black Beauty (thus the BB), which I know little about.

Like I said, I like the speaker just fine. But I'm always into trying to get the most vintage-appropriate sound when I can. Weber is having a sale right now, so I'm considering buying a 10F150 (or maybe a 10F125?), just because I've always considered it. The goal would be to get something closer to what was in the amp originally, something closer to a vintage Jensen.

Does anyone know anything about the speaker I currently have? Would the Weber 10F150 or 10F125 be much different from it? Or would it just be a waste of money?
I dont know that Sica, but the Weber 10F150 or 10F150T are superb in that amp. I would get the 50 watt, light dope or no dope. That Sica may be good though. I think Sica are import speakers.?
 

itsGiusto

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Keep in mind, there is a difference between how the amp sounded 50 years ago, and how the same amp would sound today with 50-year old guts and speaker. You may be throwing darts at a swinging board.
I generally try to shoot for how the amp would have sounded new. I've swapped out the old filter caps and tubes, and generally tried to keep it up to date. So if there's a speaker that represents that sound well, the sound of how a 1964 or 1965 PR would have sounded new, I'd be interested.
 

Boreas

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I generally try to shoot for how the amp would have sounded new. I've swapped out the old filter caps and tubes, and generally tried to keep it up to date. So if there's a speaker that represents that sound well, the sound of how a 1964 or 1965 PR would have sounded new, I'd be interested.
I am pretty ignorant about amps, but how likely is it that a converted silverface would sound just like a blackface? I do understand your goal, but don't know enough about speakers to know what a BF speaker would have sounded like back then. Good luck!!:)

Personally, I prefer the early drip-edge silverface tone instead and likely wouldn't have changed yours. My rabbit-hole vacations usually ended up with buying exactly what I wanted vs modifying equipment to get close. I was never very satisfied with "close".
 

itsGiusto

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I am pretty ignorant about amps, but how likely is it that a converted silverface would sound just like a blackface? I do understand your goal, but don't know enough about speakers to know what a BF speaker would have sounded like back then. Good luck!!:)

Personally, I prefer the early drip-edge silverface tone instead and likely wouldn't have changed yours. My rabbit-hole vacations usually ended up with buying exactly what I wanted vs modifying equipment to get close. I was never very satisfied with "close".
I'm no expert either, and it's been a while since I directly compared the schematics of the SF to the BF. But my memory was that it was possible to get everything pretty much exact with the removal of a few capacitors and swapping a few resistors. The only thing I remember is that there might have been some weirdness with the rectifier tube. Like maybe the PT was higher voltage, but it made up for it by using a 5U4 instead of a GZ34, or something, so the rectified voltage ends up being the same.
 
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noname_dragon

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For authentic PR tone I might recommend the EMI GA-SC 64... sweet mids, good bass,and bright but not not screechy in both living room and stage situations. I tried both of the aforementioned Weber 10F150 and T. I found them to be loud and punchy with exaggerated upper mids that made me uncomfortable... ok I guess if you need it loud for stage use IMO.
 

itsGiusto

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For authentic PR tone I might recommend the EMI GA-SC 64... sweet mids, good bass,and bright but not not screechy in both living room and stage situations. I tried both of the aforementioned Weber 10F150 and T. I found them to be loud and punchy with exaggerated upper mids that made me uncomfortable... ok I guess if you need it loud for stage use IMO.
Perhaps the Weber Weber 10F150O could be better. I think that uses an unribbed cone for less highs and more early breakup. I think maybe that's what the original Jensens had?
 

schmee

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I am pretty ignorant about amps, but how likely is it that a converted silverface would sound just like a blackface? I do understand your goal, but don't know enough about speakers to know what a BF speaker would have sounded like back then. Good luck!!:)

Personally, I prefer the early drip-edge silverface tone instead and likely wouldn't have changed yours. My rabbit-hole vacations usually ended up with buying exactly what I wanted vs modifying equipment to get close. I was never very satisfied with "close".
A converted SF will sound the same as the BF in that amp.
Those amps came with cheap small magnet speakers, mostly the Oxford 10J4. There are reports of robust speakers like a C10N but I haven't seen one stock. So most modern replacements will not be the same. The Weber 10F150 will be MUCH different than a 10j4. But a pleasing difference. But if shooting for the original sound, something to emulate the Oxford 10J4 might be about right. Possibly the GA SC10, but that's a pretty low watt speaker. The Jensen C10R might be a bit like it.
The Weber 10F type makes up for the shallow PR cabinet with better low end frequencies. But it's loud and cleaner than a stock PR would sound.
 

SnidelyWhiplash

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But who knows what sonic bliss I'm missing out on. There could be a speaker that's even better. I'm no expert on speaker sounds, so I don't know too well whether this speaker is good, great, average, bad, etc.

You could achieve " sonic bliss ", as you say, or you may get stuck with a speaker that isn't your cup of tea. Speakers can be a hard sell & shipping them ain't cheap.

Don't ask me how I know... 😞
 

itsGiusto

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You could achieve " sonic bliss ", as you say, or you may get stuck with a speaker that isn't your cup of tea. Speakers can be a hard sell & shipping them ain't cheap.

Don't ask me how I know... 😞
Definitely true. That's why I'm hoping to see if anyone here could help me pick a more likely candidate for a good one, or see if it's necessary.
 

SnidelyWhiplash

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Perhaps the Weber Weber 10F150O could be better. I think that uses an unribbed cone for less highs and more early breakup. I think maybe that's what the original Jensens had?

The original Jensen & Oxford speakers for the PR were ribbed cone with ceramic mags. A smooth cone inhibits the great sparkle that makes that amp great.
 




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