What is this cap/resistor Fender Japan put on the volume pot?

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by DHart, May 7, 2019.

  1. DHart

    DHart Friend of Leo's

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    This is the stock set-up on the Fender MIJ Offset Tele, which has a P90 in the neck position and a Tele pickup in the bridge position. You're looking at the volume pot.

    I think the component wired in here is to enhance high frequencies/trebles?

    [​IMG]

    There is a P90 in the neck position and it's too "warm" for me, so I'm going to replace the electronics entirely and see how that goes. (I will change to a 500k volume pot, a No-Load tone pot, and a .015uF capacitor.)

    But, I would like to know what Fender's intention was with this wired in cap/resistor? If the intent was to preserve/enhance trebles, the effect didn't do it to my taste.
     
  2. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

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    That is a treble bleed. When your volume pot is full on or 10 it does nothing.

    As you wind the pot down and introduce resistance it tends to kill the high frequencies disproportionately more (pickup goes muddy).
    This is intended to let some highs through a little, so you don't lost top end zing straight away. Once more than about 1/4 down, it's effects are greatly reduced.

    It's a matter of taste but most people like them.

    If you remove it, it will tend to make the pickup response darker at less than 10.
     
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  3. DHart

    DHart Friend of Leo's

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    Thanks Dacious.

    Would that be considered a resistor or a capacitor, or are they essentially the same thing?

    Also, can you tell the specified "value" of it from the number on the side?

    Perhaps I will incorporate one of those on the new 500k volume pot that I will be going with.
     
  4. Guitarteach

    Guitarteach Poster Extraordinaire

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    0.001 uF (mFd) capacitor.

    You can combine them with resistors to change their behaviour. I have them on a few guitars.. fit and forget. Keeps them bright at lower volume.

    If you are looking at getting rid of the P90 neck muddiness though, that is a different issue. I’d look at in-line cap instead for that. This works a treat to take the bottom end fatness out of a big pickup.

    https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/mod-squad-muddy-sounding-neck-pickup
     

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    Last edited: May 7, 2019
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  5. brucerbc

    brucerbc TDPRI Member

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  6. DHart

    DHart Friend of Leo's

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    Excellent... thanks for the info.

    Treble bleeds are something I've hear about from time to time, but have not, yet, experimented with.
     
  7. LutherBurger

    LutherBurger Friend of Leo's

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    I installed one (just a .001uF cap like yours) in a Tele. It has expanded the range of tones I can get out of the guitar quite a bit.
     
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  8. MatthewK

    MatthewK Tele-Holic

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    That's not original wiring either - Fender Japan don't use CTS pots and would never have let those gnarly solder joints out of the factory.
     
  9. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    DHart, you could try backing that pickup away from the strings in order to get it to yield a more transparent, bell-like Tone.
    +1 with that circuit not being original. The components have been upgraded and whoever did the work was good at the work.
     
  10. boredguy6060

    boredguy6060 Friend of Leo's

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    I have a treble bleed on a P90 guitar, and it sounds amazing.
    I used the one recommended and sold by StewMac.
    I hooked it up with jumpers just to try it out, that way you can switch back and forth very quickly to compare each sound.
    There was a huge improvement using the treble bleed circuit, not only does it retain the highs all the way down to zero, it retains enough mids to fatten up the tone without getting muddy.
    Another advantage to trying it out using jumpers is you can try different resistor and cap values to better suit the sound or tone you’re looking for.
    Good luck,
     
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  11. BorderRadio

    BorderRadio Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    It’s original. I own one of the same limited run guitars and it has the same CTS pots and caps, treble bleed.
     
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  12. BorderRadio

    BorderRadio Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    P90s are warm pickups, just what they are. Even though the MIJ P90 pickup is low-wind, it’s still louder and warmer than low-wind bridge pickup by a large amount. I controlled this at first by lowering the neck pickup considerably. Eventually though I swapped out both stock pickups. Now I’m using a TV Jones Starwood Tele bridge pickup, wound up to ~12k (wound with a finer wire gauge, its comparable to 7-8k or so at 42ga.), and a TVJ T-90 in the neck. The T-90 is only slightly hotter than the stock MIJ, but has shorter magnets and big Filtertron screws. It’s a tad brighter than the stock P90, less boomy.

    For these pickup I used a 500k volume pot and 250k tone pot, wired ‘50s style’. The 50s style mod/Fez Parka mod is an alternative to a treble bleed. I use treble bleeds, usually a 150k resistor in parallel with a .001uF cap on Filtertron and Dynasonic guitars. I used a V-treb adjustable treble bleed with my Lollar CCs and Novak JM Goldfoils, since I didn’t know what would work best, and didn’t feel like trying a bunch of parts. Just dial it in and forget about it.
     
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  13. DHart

    DHart Friend of Leo's

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    Yep, it's original. The guitar was ordered by Guitar Center from Fender and came straight out of the factory sealed box to me. Fender Special Edition MIJ Offset all-mahogany P90 Tele.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. MatthewK

    MatthewK Tele-Holic

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    My bad! That's a lovely guitar too.
     
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  15. DHart

    DHart Friend of Leo's

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    my error... sorry
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019 at 7:14 PM
  16. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    A proper treble bypass circuit is not mellower at 10 to be accurate. At 10, the tone is exactly as it would be without the treble bypass. A treble bypass circuit or a linear volume pot allows the high end to be maintained as the volume is turned down...retaining full tonal qualities at any volume. The secret to a treble bypass circuit is to match the values used in the circuit to the pickup/s in the guitar. I do not care for the results of the .001mfd cap bypass in the first post. This is what Fender introduced in 1967. It will result in the high end being retained but still allows some upper mids to be lacking. This results in that perceived thin bright sound...in effect it is a scooped mid because the low end is still there.....the mids are lacking. PRS has used a .001mfd cap with a 150K ohm resistor in parallel with the cap for decades, and this was accepted as a better alternative. I like a larger cap and a smaller resistor...tuned to the pickups in use.
    A linear pot maintains full tone at all volume settings.
     
  17. DHart

    DHart Friend of Leo's

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    Sorry earlier post was my error - I had the compressor on.

    I found that my compressor was making the treble bleed operate unusually (brighter, clearer with the volume turned down).

    When I turned off the compressor, the guitar is not brighter with volume at "3" than when at "10", the treble bleed functions as intended.

    This is Fender Japan factory wiring - it has not been tweaked at all since Fender Japan made the guitar.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019 at 7:26 PM
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  18. DanDII

    DanDII Tele-Meister

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    That's a good looking axe!

    Congrats!

    Personally I'd ditch the p90 fir a vintage wind mini.

    Stacked pots at 500k/250k.

    The mini is far from muddy yet it still retains a rounded/smooth tone.

    Lowered a bit it'll match well with a 7-8k Tele bridge pup.

    A mini and a Broadcaster work well together.

    Good luck!
     
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  19. DHart

    DHart Friend of Leo's

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    Thanks Dan... yeah, it is a nice guitar. I have given it almost no attention, as my other Teles get most of my play time. But I'm drawn to the offset body, so I dusted it off today and have been fooling around with it.

    At one time I thought I would explore the world of P90s. I did so with a variety of guitars. Now, P90s don't do much for me and I could enjoy replacing the P90 in this guitar. I think a Firebird or a Mini Hum in the neck position of this guitar, with a high value volume pot and no-load tone pot would be nice. I prefer a brighter crisper tone from the neck pickup, not a rounded muffled tone.

    I do like the bridge pickup in this guitar, it sounds like a low-wind AlNiCo 5 Tele Bridge pickup.
     
  20. DanDII

    DanDII Tele-Meister

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    Firebird would have more sparkle and clarity. A little more single-coilish.

    Mini would lean more towards the PAF smooth tone while still being articulate.

    They're both great.

    It's a cool guitar. Have some fun with it!
     
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