What is the best Type of clear-coat for acrylic paints? ("Fool" SG)

Spikeymikey

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I made the black Ric clone and used the exact method i described to you. Twas black car paint that's acrylic and the 2k clear 1 can, so theres the proof. And with a fresh wax boy does it shine. The one on the left was my mates real ric 330
anthony-j-jones-13263907-10154231037389343-3190797701506536154-n.jpg

Thay look amazing , well done. Ray Lichtensenstien would be chuffed with the "Whaam" one!
 
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Spikeymikey

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What type of acrylic? "Acrylic" has become far too much of a generic term and can mean anything from *any* water based paint to water-reducible (NOT water based) industrial enamels.

Brand? Type? some take lacquers fine *if* applied carefully - some are only compatible wit water based materials.

I used 'Daler- Rowney acrylics, that's all I could find!
 

Spikeymikey

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As an alternative, Target Coatings Emtech 9000 (used to be called "Super Clear") is a waterborne polyurethane lacquer that is totally clear and water-white with no amber or straw coloring so it will not cause any shift in those fantastic colors you used in the artwork. Very tough stuff and can be buffed when it's cured in about a week. You still need a respirator.

The idea with 2k reminds me of epoxy - mix it and rush to beat the working window before it kicks. And don't let it kick in the gun or you'll never get it cleaned out. Now with all that anxiety about it, it's really not that bad a process. Buckocaster's been using the "goop" with un-deniable success on his sparklecasters.

Thanks Vizcaster. I'll check that one out too but the client has decided to give it to a luthier to finish. My lungs have thanked him for that! But all this info is really helpful as I will do it myself when I do guitars for my own use. I plan on doing another "Fool" soon and on the 1964 spec guitar. I'd like to do a Hendrix Strat/V and maybe a "Rocky" too! Thanks again for all your help,here!
 

Spikeymikey

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If you are not going to use an acrylic varnish that was made for this specific task, whatever you chose, you need to make a test on a separate board, with dry acrylics and primer.

You want to see if the finish doe not destroy the acryl of course, but you want to see how it will darken it. Even if it is not yellow, it may affect the density of colors. Acrylic varnishes for art paintings are usually very thin and light and they try to minimize this darkening problem.

Then you need to see if the acryl is not porous, it may need some kind of sealer first (just like you would use a painting varnish between "difficult" layers in oil painting).

I'd try using clear Nitro lacquer, as Gibson guitars are finished with Nitro. Easy to use, fast drying, thin coats, nice. Nitro is not as resistant as Poly, but good enough. I used it on a few guitars and other works with gold leaf and acryls. There will be a slight yellowing with time, but it will give a more "vintage" look, and closer to the original. Again, try it before, to see if the solvents in Nitro won't disturb your paintings.

Thanks very much LowCaster. These are all really good points and I'll discuss this with the Luthier. He's very experienced and meticulous so it's in good hands. I wondered about Nitro myself. Have you used it over Acrylic paint before? To me if they are compatible it would be the ideal solution for all the reasons you mention. ALso, is there any chance of seeing some of your work? I use gold leaf in my fine art work sometimes but I only ever paint in oils. But having got into acrylic with this project I might change that a bit in future!
 

Spikeymikey

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Jadedsoul, you gave plenty of good avice, but if every finishing job turned good so easily we would know it, right?

You make a strong point saying that acryls are commonly used and sprayed over, but this made me react:


I've seen acrylic paints act in a lot of unexpected ways, and you know nothing about what kind of acryls and how exactly he used it, and you don't know what can of paint he is gonna get, and what the paint manufacturer puts in his consumer grade products. So yes I'd be carefull. Spikeymyckey knows the drill, so there's no problem.

Thanks very much again LC! This is very interesting stuff and really give me food for thought as I just assumed acrylic was totally problem free in this respect. As I said, I never use it in my professional work so to me acrylic is a sealed book. Thanks again to all of you who chimed in on this thread, it's really helped a lot.
 

Spikeymikey

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And i also said..hes fine spraying acrylic with "2k"..and hes gona do a test run anyway....anyway i dont want to fall out over tiny stuff.
Hi Jaded, I got hold of some 2K and tried it over the "study" I had made on a mahogany panel of the Angel before commencing on the actual guitar. I followed your instructions and it seems to have worked fine so far and it's been a few days so next time I might go with that. I'm going to try a couple of the other suggestions too, including Nitro But I take on board your points on that. They say that the original wasn't coated at all but that was painted in Humbrol enamel and never really dried, at least when Clapton owned it. I heard that the best violins are finished with a varnish that never really dries and this gives them a better tone?
 
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Silverface

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I used 'Daler- Rowney acrylics, that's all I could find

That's a brand, not a product. They make a bunch of different "Acrylic" paints. Without specifics and being able to find tech data there's no way to be sure. But it looks like they make artists colors, not really "paints" (premixed paint in a can). Many of the artists colors go on quite thick - if so my immediate feeling is that no - lacquer would not be the right topcoat.

Bu if you kept it very thin it *might* work. Honestly the only way to know for sure is to test both on a piece of scrap - which should be done every time you use something you have never tried before. Apply some of the acrylic, let it dry completely, then apply the lacquer in extremely light mist passes. Check for compatibility, then apply more if it's OK. Don't stop working on the test piece until you've applied the entire desired topcoat thickness - then let it cure for a couple of weeks and let it go through some normal heat/cool cycles to check for crazing, blush and other potential problems.
 

Spikeymikey

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That's a brand, not a product. They make a bunch of different "Acrylic" paints. Without specifics and being able to find tech data there's no way to be sure. But it looks like they make artists colors, not really "paints" (premixed paint in a can). Many of the artists colors go on quite thick - if so my immediate feeling is that no - lacquer would not be the right topcoat.

Bu if you kept it very thin it *might* work. Honestly the only way to know for sure is to test both on a piece of scrap - which should be done every time you use something you have never tried before. Apply some of the acrylic, let it dry completely, then apply the lacquer in extremely light mist passes. Check for compatibility, then apply more if it's OK. Don't stop working on the test piece until you've applied the entire desired topcoat thickness - then let it cure for a couple of weeks and let it go through some normal heat/cool cycles to check for crazing, blush and other potential problems.

Thanks for the advice, Silverface. Yes I realised that's a brand and I have no idea of the specifics of the product. I've contacted them about this and they are getting back to me on it. I know someone who completed the painting of a guitar using Rowney acrylics a few years ago and she has advised me on what she used and it worked out fine with no adverse effects. I have some on order and will test it myself....thanks again very much for your input on this!
 

LowCaster

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Don't stress too much. There's nothing wrong with Daler-Rowney and artist's acrylics of all brands that I tried are all OK. "Artist's acryls" are strong and usually shiny when dry, they look like oil paint, "students" acryls may be matte and sometime more brittle but still ok. It's true that acryls are easy to use (fast drying, water cleaning).

The problems arise only when you take far too much freedom. Thick paint doesn't dry as expected. Too much water dilution can make a weaker or porous paint. I have noticed that acrylic painting mediums can be of different quality though. Some are strong an flexible, others dry and brittle. I only ever used nitro over Posca pen (close but not the same as artist's acrylics) on a few little objects without problems. If not dry enough it may bleed.

For the gold leaf here is a Gibson Melody Maker I painted three years ago, and another Gibson Nighthawk. Both are finished with nitro over gold and nitro and/or shellac, and that works great. I'll do a Flying V soon. I added my webpage to my profile page if you want to see a few drawings.

Awaiting to see your guitar finished.

Vanite.jpg


DSC_9255_zpshmwhtl0d.jpg


DSC_9249_zpskbli0bep.jpg
 

jadedsoul

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Did you use those pens to do this work poco. posca , pens or something ? its defo a good look anyway. So what way did you go ? Nitro ? 2pac ? or some new super teq ?? O may bad you used normal artist acrylic. i thought you had used paint from tins as in acrylic car paint not artist acrylic i used to use in my air brush. my Bad . so yea i guess gawd any chemical can upset that type of acrylic. i never realised... silly me.
 

LowCaster

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jadedsoul, I didn't think about "car paint acrylics". Being an artist I assumed that Spikeymickey used "artist's acrylics". :D

For my two guitars I used real gol leaf (or gold foil), not gold paint.
 

jadedsoul

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jadedsoul, I didn't think about "car paint acrylics". Being an artist I assumed that Spikeymickey used "artist's acrylics". :D

For my two guitars I used real gol leaf (or gold foil), not gold paint.
Now thats a good idea.. a fully coverd in gold leaf les paul.. or defo used for a gold top..i never thought about using gold leaf..hmmm you got any photos ?????
 

Silverface

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Too much water dilution can make a weaker or porous paint.

"Too thick" can also cause problems with trapped water, which will blister and/or "blush" your lacquer coating. FWIW all coatings - no matter what the type - should generally be applied as thin as possible as long as it will will work and protect the surface - but no more. "extra coating" is almost always counter-productive.
 

Spikeymikey

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The pictures are 4 posts before : http://www.tdpri.com/threads/what-i...lic-paints-fool-sg.774920/page-2#post-7957547
I don't know how to take a good picture of gold, it's nicer in real life.

I heard of a custom shop stratocaster for Clapton and another strat for Prince, this one fully covered in gold leaf including the maple fretboard.
That's a cool idea! Sorry I haven't replied but I didn't get any notification of these new comments. I did post pics of the guitar being clear-coated but it seems to have got lost? The luthier now doing it said its going fine and I'll post again later tonight when I get back from a gig. I'm going to do an Alder bodied Tele next so I'll need more advice on preparing that, if that's ok guys?
 

Spikeymikey

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Here's a shot from the the Luthier after seven coats of lacquer. He's going to give it a couple more before polishing it.

image.jpeg
 




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