What Have You Learnt From Modelers?

Discussion in 'Modeling Amps, Plugins and Apps' started by Grandy, May 18, 2020.

  1. Bob Womack

    Bob Womack Tele-Afflicted

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    I've been at it for nearly twenty years.

    1. I've learned that just as with all things guitar, your sound is only as good as the person operating it.
    2. I've learned that a deadline is a wonderful thing. When you have to deliver, it tends to whittle down analysis paralysis.
    3. I've learned that the same old rules still apply: the sound you get alone quite often doesn't work when you are in a combo unless you learn what is necessary to work with a combo.
    4. I've come to the conclusion that they will never really attract everyone. I work as a recording engineer. One of the boards I've worked with has 5000 knobs and indicators on the front panel. I'm good with that... many others just glaze over. Same thing with the modelers: it doesn't have 3-6 knobs and that's it. You know, you can't just crank 'em to 10 and break off the knobs.

    Bob
     
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  2. Nick Fanis

    Nick Fanis Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    I have learnt that all I really need is a tweed Deluxe,a tuner,an overdrive,a tremolo and an analog delay.
     
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  3. guspac88

    guspac88 Tele-Meister

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    I learned they sound 95% the same as what they emulate, but don't "feel" the same. I learned that carrying around my now dinosaur-age POD HD500 means I can plug into any poweramp or PA that's around and know exactly what it'll sound like. There's something to be said for walking into gigs carrying a just a guitar case and a pedalboard. That said, nothing will replace my Fender/Vox/Marshall tube trio at home for a long while.
     
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  4. Peegoo

    Peegoo Friend of Leo's

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    Most guitar players listen more with their eyeballs than with their ears.
     
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  5. NeubyWanKaneuby

    NeubyWanKaneuby TDPRI Member

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    You need to focus more on tone more than anything else.
     
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  6. 3-Chord-Genius

    3-Chord-Genius Poster Extraordinaire

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    I have the Code 100 head and yeah, those emulations are dead-on. It's worth it just for the JCM800 model alone. I played it at volume with a band last year, and it sounded and reacted exactly like the two JCM800 amps I had back in the 90's. The trick is to turn off the noise gate. I mean, Marshall amps from the era were noisy anyway, so it's no big deal.
     
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  7. 3-Chord-Genius

    3-Chord-Genius Poster Extraordinaire

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    Which modelers did you use before arriving at that conclusion? Because back in the day, all I needed was a guitar, a cable, and a Marshall half stack. I did that for years and it sounded great. But now I'm able to get to that same sound and feel, plus that of pretty much any other amplifier I want but can't afford, using digital modeling. The trick is to crank it up loud, like any other guitar amp. It also helps to have a very clean power amp that won't color the sound, since the digital models are emulating the preamps, power amps, and cabs anyway.
     
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  8. paulblackford

    paulblackford Tele-Meister

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    I've taken the lesson from modelers that I actually like having less options. After having a few modelers with all the bells, and whistles, I found that all fx but tremolo/vibrato, reverb, delay, and compression are of no use to me. I find I'm no longer that into gain, except for a light breakup. Also, I only end up writing patches for whichever one amp model that I find that's closest to "my" sound. I had both 2X12 models from the valvetronix line, and the mustang line, and now I just play an old Polytone Mini-Brute that could not be more bare bones. With less to think about, I actually play for longer times, and more often.
     
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  9. Bluego1

    Bluego1 Tele-Afflicted

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    Exactly. Silver Jubilee babeee! Oh, I forgot the noise gate tip @blowtorch
     
  10. Axegrinder77

    Axegrinder77 Tele-Holic

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    The top end modelling stuff sounds very good and I would use it, but we're taking thousands of dollars, and you have, well, a modeler.

    The boss katana, yamaha thr etc, ie under a grand, sounds uninspiring to me. If it doesn't inspire me to play then it's worthless.

    Ymmv
     
  11. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

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    silver 'b'lee was my fave out of the batch, right away

    Okay def making a point of dragging it out again, soon
     
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  12. ElJay370

    ElJay370 Tele-Afflicted

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    For recording and noodling at home the plug-in-and-go convenience of a modeling amp is great. I would describe the tones they’re capable of as “convincing” or “adequate”.

    For a live gig however, I’m going with the Eisenhower era technology every time. A tube amp’s sound has a weight and depth that digital modelers just don’t (and yes, I’ve heard a “good one”). Their character doesn’t change as you turn up. You just get the same sound...only louder.

    An audience may not notice, but I do. And I can’t perform well for them if I think my guitar sounds flat and gutless.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2020
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  13. Cloodie

    Cloodie TDPRI Member

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    I've learned that they're great for the variety of sounds and options they offer. I've also learned that I'm suited to having far less of a variety of sounds and options.
     
  14. memorex

    memorex Friend of Leo's

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    From modelers, I have learned that I can get amp sounds, that through a PA, are as good as any mic'd amp I've ever used, although at much lower volume. I've learned that I can set up effects chains that are far better than what I could do with an assortment of pedals. I've learned that these amps and effect chains can be programmed for instant recall without ever having to tweak pedals on the fly. Are there individual pedals that sound better than the emulations in my modelers? Yes, but I've learned to come up with suitable substitutions that sound good enough to me. Is the Marshall sim in my GT-100 as good as the real amp. No, but I don't want to deal with real amp. Is the Leslie emulation in my GT-100 as good as a Neo Vent or a Lester-G? No, but it's good enough. And for the $400 I spent on my GT-100, I can get more sounds than I could get with $2,000 worth of amp and pedals in a less than 10 lb. box. At my age, I won't be playing that many gigs in the future, but I will certainly never haul an amp or a pedal board around again.
     
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  15. Twang-ineer

    Twang-ineer TDPRI Member

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    2 things I have learned....

    1)The amplifier descriptions are only there to give you an idea what was used as a sound reference for programming. You have to learn the product and then get YOUR sound out of it. It is like any other tool.

    2)Accept that the settings that you work up listening through one device at one volume will not translate 100% to any other device at any other volume level. Make many patches the same and tweak them as you use them -

    Cali Clean - Headphones
    Cali Clean - Nearfields - Low Volume
    Cali Clean - Nearfields - Medium Volume
    Cali Clean - Bassbreaker Combo Practice
    Cali Clean - Bassbreaker Combo Gig Volume

    At this point I usually use a "bank" for variations or I use a "slot" of 10 presets.

    I Generally do the following - A Super Reverb Like Clean - A Mesa Ch1 like clean - A Crunching Mesa Mark II sound - A Clean British sound and a Dirty Marshall.

    So 4 general presets that pretty much everything that I play fits into. Then tweaked versions of each for different applications.

    Oh, and I second the previous posters comment .... anything that you need to play can be played just fine on a Mini Brute..... I really miss the one I had....
     
  16. Tony Forman

    Tony Forman Tele-Meister

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    Sorry to learn of your issues with this amp Tubelectron. I should add that I always carry a Tech21 FlyRig 5 as a backup. If I ever experienced those kinda issues I would hopefully solve them by plugging the FlyRig into the effects return.
     
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  17. Charlodius

    Charlodius Tele-Meister

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    They taught me that you need to spend a lot of money on one if you don’t want ear fatigue.
     
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  18. tubelectron

    tubelectron Tele-Afflicted

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    Yes, it was promising but proved deceptive unfortunately... :cry:

    I opened it several times to repair it (connectors opened, rescrewing, reinforcing, damping pads inside chassis, etc...). :confused:

    The Mustang III was unable to widthstand the rigors of multiple users and carrying in the Music School where I play. We had the same problems with a big combo from Line 6. These amps are in the closets and not used anymore today because they are randomly (or permanently) defective so we can't rely on them. :mad:

    We replaced them with Champion 100 : less possibilities indeed, but much more abuse and use resistant, and still lightweight. Too bad the C100 is unable to sound like a true Twin-Reverb... :(

    This year, I returned as often as possible to my tube amps. More simple and better sounding on the spot.

    When the modelers builders will understand that provinding a zillion of fully editable loadable traficotable sounds is not the same as having the good sound now, immediately, without hassle, there will be a neat progress !

    Possibly it's what achieve the new Tonemaster series from Fender ? o_O

    Maybe I'm Old School, but I found more fun to play than to compute with a guitar amp ! ;)

    -tbln
     
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  19. bgmacaw

    bgmacaw Friend of Leo's

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    https://www.strymon.net/products/iridium/
     
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  20. Octorfunk

    Octorfunk Tele-Meister

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    Same here.

    I've had tons of modeling amps, solid state amps, & tube amps. The only difference I can tell between modeling & tube amps is the air being pushed by the speaker. As I play in front of a modeling combo amp, the sound is spot-on, but there is a certain 3D quality that is (slightly) missing.

    I can sort've compare it to listening to a recrding of a motorcycle being revved up through a really loud speaker. The sound is all there. It's most definitely the sound of a motorcycle, it's most certainly loud, and it's not "shrill/fake/thin/etc." But something in my brain can tell that I'm not actually standing next to that motorcycle being revved up. There is a difference in the experience when I'm actually standing next to the machine itself.

    I would say the experience is similar when comparing tube vs modeling amps. To my ears, the sound, responsiveness & dynamics are all there. It's a very slight difference. Very slight.
     
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