What happened? Did the American original 50s telecaster replace the AVRI 52?

jfgesquire

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I never understood this statement. The CS vintage style guitars are not vintage accurate at all. Fender even stated that 95% of the CS guitars have a 9.5" radius and large frets. Look at literally any 51 Nocaster - 9.5 radius and 6105 frets.

The American Original 50's Tele is basically a tweaked version of the AV52. They updated the fretboard radius to 9.5" and have slightly taller frets. The finish was changed to a poly sealer (NOT Poly undercoat) to better help the nitro adhere to the body after they got too many complaints about the Flash Coat lacquer being too brittle. The finish on the AO guitars is WAAAY thinner than the pre-2012 AVRI's.

Anyway, I don't quite get the complaining. The Wildwood "Thin Skins" are highly regarded and the AO's are pretty much identical in spec. Not to mention the 9.5" radius and taller frets are basically CS spec. American Originals are basically the production line Custom Shop (without all the relicing).


Huh....I didn't complain...I wrote "Many people consider."

And 7.25" being the only vintage BlackGuard spec radius is quite the myth that should stop.

This is just one source:

https://musikraft.com/blackguard-tele/
 

AxemanVR

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Actually it had not been called AVRI since 2012.

Is yours the AVRI or the AV?

There’s is a problem calling any Fender product an “American Vintage Reissue” or “AVRI”, since nothing in Fender’s literature actually uses that exact label to specifically describe any of their product lines as far as I can tell - although I did manage to find at least one source that references the term “Reissue” as an official Fender model name.

This is from a 2011 Fender Frontline catalog (albeit the words “American Vintage” and “Reissue” are never placed directly next to each other as a single phrase):


B841ADA6-5844-4746-B0DB-D6471EAACD09.jpeg

A1FF185A-915C-4F16-B63C-DFC7103C7FC1.jpeg



Otherwise I have seen nothing else that indicates that Fender ever used the specific phrase "American Vintage Reissue" nor the acronym "AVRI" in any of their literature.

I have always called my 2003 Fender ‘52 Telecaster an “AVRI”, but after checking out a Fender Frontline catalog from 2003 I also found both the Strats and Teles were called “American Vintage Series” models, with no mention of “Reissue” anywhere:


3015F842-BC0E-43B6-A34E-0A05D1D2317B.jpeg

926FA277-160A-4B53-9EB2-128953B4483F.jpeg

1E598E2D-9C48-4D72-88AE-07B70517E41D.jpeg



So “AVS”?

Anyway, I’m just going to refer to mine as “AV” or "American Vintage" from now on.


281327CD-06D5-45E2-8E67-C37B72B33C11.jpeg
A2253CC0-567F-4996-8C0B-4B5F0B79CB81.jpeg



There seems to be many potential sources for mis-information, most of which can be found in third party music sites and catalogs (not to mention guitar forums :rolleyes:).

This is from a 2004 "American Musical Supply" catalog:


9A1F6812-FBFD-4542-93C5-3A366A089F81.jpeg

CEA6A05B-DDAC-41E6-B528-3198F5A303C5.jpeg


“U.S. Vintage Reissue” is certainly not an official Fender model name as far as I can tell - and who knows what else has been circulating around the internet all these years?...


 
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Telekarster

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the Originals have the 9.5" radius on the neck and not the 7.25". That might be important for some people.

Yep, it's very important to me. I only play the vintage 7.25 and have often been confused as to what vintage models actually carry this radius. To me, if you're gonna make a reissue instrument then it should be reissue all the way, not vintage blended to modern XYZ specs. Could you (or someone) tell me exactly what "vintage" lines are produced with the 7.25 radius's? Classic Series, Vintera, etc.?
 

Nick Fanis

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American Originals are basically the production line Custom Shop (with

My 2 AOs are the best FENDER teles I have ever owned and played and I have owned 100s (including vintage ones from every decade ) and played...well 1000s.....

My AO 70s custom is the best Fender guitar I have experienced bar nine.

Each and every AO Fender I have tried in the shops was also excellent.
 

John C

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There’s is a problem calling any Fender product an “American Vintage Reissue” or “AVRI”, since nothing in Fender’s literature actually uses that exact label to specifically describe any of their product lines as far as I can tell - although I did manage to find at least one source that references the term “Reissue” as an official Fender model name.

This is from a 2011 Fender Frontline catalog (albeit the words “American Vintage” and “Reissue” are never placed directly next to each other as a single phrase):


View attachment 910083
View attachment 910084


Otherwise I have seen nothing else that indicates that Fender ever used the specific phrase "American Vintage Reissue" nor the acronym "AVRI" in any of their literature.

I have always called my 2003 Fender ‘52 Telecaster an “AVRI”, but after checking out a Fender Frontline catalog from 2003 I also found both the Strats and Teles were called “American Vintage Series” models, with no mention of “Reissue” anywhere:


View attachment 910085
View attachment 910086
View attachment 910087


So “AVS”?

Anyway, I’m just going to refer to mine as “AV” or "American Vintage" from now on.


View attachment 910090 View attachment 910089


There seems to be many potential sources for mis-information, most of which can be found in third party music sites and catalogs (not to mention guitar forums :rolleyes:).

This is from a 2004 "American Musical Supply" catalog:


View attachment 910092
View attachment 910091

“U.S. Vintage Reissue” is certainly not an official Fender model name as far as I can tell - and who knows what else has been circulating around the internet all these years?...



EDIT: Ooops; accidentally put my response in the middle of @AxemanVR's post; moved it now.:oops::oops::oops::oops:

This is what I meant by Fender being inconsistent with the use of the word "Reissue".

While there is nothing official since the release of the 3rd generation models in August 2012 it's become the "internet convention" to call the older models "AVRI" and the August 2012-2017 models "AV". Never the official name, but it is a way to identify the 3rd generation from the 1st and 2nd generation '52 Tele model. It's a moot point for all the other models because the 1st and 2nd generations used different years ('57 and '62) than the 3rd generation ('58 & '64 Tele, '56, '59 & '65 Strat, '65 Jazzmaster, '65 Jaguar, and I don't remember the bass years off the top of my head).

And of course "internet convention" is something to be discussed - much like the use of "Dan Smith" for Stratocasters. Some people, myself included, ONLY call the 1982 Standard Stratocaster the "Dan Smith Strat" (and put it in quotes) while others also call the revised models from 1983 (the 2-knob Standard Stratocaster) as a "Dan Smith Strat". Never mind that Dan Smith was a Fender marketing manager - a product manager, but he was in charge of both projects at Fender.
 
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Willy-son

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Yep, it's very important to me. I only play the vintage 7.25 and have often been confused as to what vintage models actually carry this radius. To me, if you're gonna make a reissue instrument then it should be reissue all the way, not vintage blended to modern XYZ specs. Could you (or someone) tell me exactly what "vintage" lines are produced with the 7.25 radius's? Classic Series, Vintera, etc.?

Boom! Agree 100%. Fender jumped the shark in 2018 when they they released the AO line with only 9.5 radius necks. Seriously, a 50s or 60s Tele with a 9.5 radius neck? Does Fender even make a non-custom shop Tele with a 7.25 radius neck and lacquer finish anymore? I’m sure their marketing folks have their motivations, but why the all or nothing move to a series of guitars that are supposed to be “reissues?” 7.25 radius necks are what makes a Tele feel and play like a Tele.
 

monkeybanana

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I remember when this happened I was scratching my head because the ARVIs are so successful. Then I noticed the 70th anniversary Esquire came out and thought all was well but I wonder where this is heading. Hopefully we see the 52s come back.
 

Telekarster

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Boom! Agree 100%. Fender jumped the shark in 2018 when they they released the AO line with only 9.5 radius necks. Seriously, a 50s or 60s Tele with a 9.5 radius neck? Does Fender even make a non-custom shop Tele with a 7.25 radius neck and lacquer finish anymore? I’m sure their marketing folks have their motivations, but why the all or nothing move to a series of guitars that are supposed to be “reissues?” 7.25 radius necks are what makes a Tele feel and play like a Tele.

Exactly man. Just drives me nuts when they come out with a 50's or 60's XYZ and then it's got 9.5 and thick Poly finish, plastic wire, 5 way quick connect switch, ceramic pups, baby crap pots, etc... I mean how the heck is it a 50's/60's exactly? :confused:o_O I'm sure it's some sort of cost thing but I'd rather pay the extra $$$ and get it legit spec :cool:
 

Larry Mal

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Yep, it's very important to me. I only play the vintage 7.25 and have often been confused as to what vintage models actually carry this radius. To me, if you're gonna make a reissue instrument then it should be reissue all the way, not vintage blended to modern XYZ specs. Could you (or someone) tell me exactly what "vintage" lines are produced with the 7.25 radius's? Classic Series, Vintera, etc.?

Not entirely sure, other than the Japanese made Fender stuff tends to be 7.25", also the AV and AVRI lines are, and that's pretty much all I ever needed to know. I can just buy that stuff used and that's what I did. I don't care about the Vintera stuff but it's probably pretty good.

I used to really only care to play the 7.25" radius, but over the years I've come to like modern Fender necks very much. They don't make bad necks.
 

RadioFM74

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Exactly man. Just drives me nuts when they come out with a 50's or 60's XYZ and then it's got 9.5 and thick Poly finish, plastic wire, 5 way quick connect switch, ceramic pups, baby crap pots, etc... I mean how the heck is it a 50's/60's exactly? :confused:o_O I'm sure it's some sort of cost thing but I'd rather pay the extra $$$ and get it legit spec :cool:

Er… what series of 50s and 60s Fenders have "thick Poly finish, plastic wire, …"?

Even my Baja 60s – not a vintage-correct model by any means – had super thin poly finish (I could feel the wood grain through it), stellar pickups (PV 52 and 58) duly covered in cloth wire and good quality electronics. The Vintera 50s tele and strat I tried in shops felt, played and sounded fantastic despite being mid-priced models.

AOs are like the AV/AVRIs except for 9.5" radius, vintage tall frets and a poly undercoat so the nitro finish does not come off as easily. I prefer full vintage spec but every AO I've played so far was outstanding and easily my #2 of any Fender guitar I ever tried (the #1 spot being held by AVRIs/AVs).

I agree it's a pity the AVs were discontinued and I think the two lines could have co-existed, but let's not get carried away…
 

Telekarster

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Er… what series of 50s and 60s Fenders have "thick Poly finish, plastic wire, …"?

Even my Baja 60s – not a vintage-correct model by any means – had super thin poly finish (I could feel the wood grain through it), stellar pickups (PV 52 and 58) duly covered in cloth wire and good quality electronics. The Vintera 50s tele and strat I tried in shops felt, played and sounded fantastic despite being mid-priced models.

AOs are like the AV/AVRIs except for 9.5" radius, vintage tall frets and a poly undercoat so the nitro finish does not come off as easily. I prefer full vintage spec but every AO I've played so far was outstanding and easily my #2 of any Fender guitar I ever tried (the #1 spot being held by AVRIs/AVs).

I agree it's a pity the AVs were discontinued and I think the two lines could have co-existed, but let's not get carried away…

Yeah I hear you man, I guess I'm just a purist when it comes to these things. Before I built my 51 Nocaster and 54 Strat, I tried to find something in the line ups that I could afford that was 100% spec to the originals i.e. nothing that really nailed it on the nuance level i.e. little route pegs, hole under the tuner, etc. stuff like that. I could've bought something close but then I'd have to mod a brand new guitar, and then I'd have to spend more time and $ doing that. In the end, I built my own and satisfied my desires just fine. Just sayin' that's the reason why I built my own. Maybe I'm just asking too much in the word "reissue" vs. MFG costs etc. Not saying the guitars offered are not good, I've played plenty of them and they are good, I'm just a stickler for historic detail I guess.
 

Minivan Megafun

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Yeah I hear you man, I guess I'm just a purist when it comes to these things. Before I built my 51 Nocaster and 54 Strat, I tried to find something in the line ups that I could afford that was 100% spec to the originals i.e. nothing that really nailed it on the nuance level i.e. little route pegs, hole under the tuner, etc. stuff like that. I could've bought something close but then I'd have to mod a brand new guitar, and then I'd have to spend more time and $ doing that. In the end, I built my own and satisfied my desires just fine. Just sayin' that's the reason why I built my own. Maybe I'm just asking too much in the word "reissue" vs. MFG costs etc. Not saying the guitars offered are not good, I've played plenty of them and they are good, I'm just a stickler for historic detail I guess.

But they're not reissues. Fender never uses the word "reissue" in the AO marketing. There's a few theories but one of them is that the AV line was cutting into the CS "Time Machine" series.

I personally LOVE the AO series because FINALLY I can get a nitro lacquer vintage style guitar with a 9.5" radius board and frets that aren't tiny without having to buy a CS. I own 4 and a half AO's right now (the half being I put an AO neck on a partscaster). You'll have to pry these guitars from my cold dead hands.

Anyway, I don't get the complaining. Fender made year specific reissues for the better part of 40 years. There's tons of used market inventory if anyone really hates the AO's that badly.

I think what's going to happen is Fender is going to update or discontinue the line again at some point soon and eventually the used AO's are going to skyrocket in price as demand and scarcity take over. Funny how the AV line were being blown out 3 years ago as retailers tried to get rid of them and now they're going for more than they were new on the used market. think people are overestimating what a "smash hit" the AV guitars were outside of this board. I remember them taking about a $600 price hike in 2012 when they relaunched as AV and that was eyebrow raising. It's also why they were slow to sell.

I don't see Fender relaunching vintage spec AV line again with how much they've dumped into the Vintera and now the MIJ "Heritage" guitars.
 
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kjatexas

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There’s also a new president and a nasty bug going around, in case they didn’t tell you since you woke up from the coma…

(I’m kidding—it’s hard to keep up with all the different models!)

Yup, as soon as Fender comes out with new models, they discontinue those and come out with newer models. I can't keep up.
 

Tele5284

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This may not mean anything but this is the one of the hang tags from my 2012 52’ Tele. It was made in June, it had the poly sealer under nitro. But is says AM VINT 52 TELE. Not sure if the “reissue” moniker should be applied. Anyway I stripped that poly off and had it refinished with nitro sealer and 2 coats of nitro lacquer. Switched out the bridge pick up for a custom shop 51 nocaster pick up, put in a 4 way switch so I can have vintage and modern wiring (I love the dark circuit) love this Tele.
 

Tremolux

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1982 was when the first '52 reissues began to hit the streets, very slowly I might add. The Tele was the first of the vintage reissue models out of the gate in that landmark early-early original run at the CBS Fullerton plant. Anticipation of these Teles, Strats, P's and J's was very high back then. I had a Telecaster, purchased brand new in suburban Chicago, and I sold it the following year for a 1983 '57 black Strat which I still have. I kept a photocopy of the Tele's owner manual and it states simply on the front: Vintage Telecaster. No mention of '52 or Reissue.

I also still have a 1982 '57 P-Bass and I would love to get a 1982 '52 Tele again to complete the trio but prices have gone very high. (edited to fix typo)
 

takauya

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We love the PV series because if you look at them wrong, they start to peel their finishes off and eventually be completely naked by themselves.
 

moosie

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What about the "Pure Vintage" models? I thought the 2012-17 were the PV's.....
The way I remember it, PV was used in the marketing literature for the new models in 2012-13. But then it became simply American Vintage, with the Pure Vintage moniker relegated to the re-tooled hardware these models spawned. They're used by the Custom Shop, and I would imagine the AO models, as well as being sold separately at places like Darren Riley.
 

moosie

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I never understood this statement. The CS vintage style guitars are not vintage accurate at all. Fender even stated that 95% of the CS guitars have a 9.5" radius and large frets. Look at literally any 51 Nocaster - 9.5 radius and 6105 frets.

The American Original 50's Tele is basically a tweaked version of the AV52. They updated the fretboard radius to 9.5" and have slightly taller frets. The finish was changed to a poly sealer (NOT Poly undercoat) to better help the nitro adhere to the body after they got too many complaints about the Flash Coat lacquer being too brittle. The finish on the AO guitars is WAAAY thinner than the pre-2012 AVRI's.

Anyway, I don't quite get the complaining. The Wildwood "Thin Skins" are highly regarded and the AO's are pretty much identical in spec. Not to mention the 9.5" radius and taller frets are basically CS spec. American Originals are basically the production line Custom Shop (without all the relicing).
Personally, few CS, and no Wildwoods, measure up to the AVs. Big frets, flatter radius, no thank you.

I haven't spent enough time with the AO to know, but the one I played briefly (CAR) seemed to have a very nice finish (though lacking the silver/ruby tint of the AV CAR, which is so neat). Bottom line, if the AO had a 7.25, I'd probably own one or two. Instead, Fender, I'm willing to give my cash to other people, to buy their used AVs.
 




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