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Discussion in 'Tele Home Depot' started by ElJay370, Feb 24, 2021.
It's what drew me to this forum in the first place. I'd happily participate.
Well you missed the unofficial one this year... the brotherhood build.
The 2020 Brotherhood Builds | Telecaster Guitar Forum (tdpri.com)
I'd say the challenges became a hassle for the moderators due to some of the participants being a pain in the butt during the last of them. Mostly it was a few people unhappy with the rules that were laid out and the aftermath of that.
You sir are a master of understatement. The whining and complaining got so ridiculous that I completely tuned out the last couple of challenges. It was like a bantering competition for lawyers.........
Hmmm...must be some underlying forum politics at play that predate my arrival. Were the rules that hard to follow?
This one sticks out in my mind:
Rockdogs Build Challenge Discussion (not the build) | Telecaster Guitar Forum (tdpri.com)
Wow....a lot of emotional investment for a something where no trophy or prize money was involved.
Yeah, I can see how some people's overwhelming desire to win an argument could spoil what's supposed to be a friendly competition. That's too bad.
Yeah, we're supposed to be having conversations here.
Sometimes those turn into arguments I reckon.
Whining about rules is an American tradition. Have you been alive the last year? Make the rules simple and spend a little time getting feedback to make sure they can be understood as intended before they are published. This website is a commercial operation. It makes money. Its main product (information) is provided free of charge by volunteers/participants because of their love of building these instruments and desire to have others gain the satisfaction of doing so also. The least the owners and management can do is to do a little extra work once a year and give back a little to the community…The community that made this site possible. To those of you long time members that always defend the management decision to stop these challenges by saying it was too much of a hassle for the moderators, I say use your experience and status to help them find a way to do it. These challenges help encourage and support the new generation of members just learning these skills.
The Bass Forum has several recent build threads
The topic of a forum challenge came up numerous times since the last official challenge. Yearly or multiple times during the year in some cases. You can search for the threads.
If the owner doesn't want it to happen...it won't happen. The closest the forum has come recently was the brotherhood build. A few people participated. It shouldn't take a grand prize to get people off their butts to do it. If people really wanted to participate in a challenge this was it.
Crazydave went the extra mile to try and rally folks this past year. It didn't get the kind of response that has occurred in the past. The forum has changed too over the years....maybe the concept of a challenge as we once knew it needs to evolve somehow. People seem to come and go a lot more than they used to.
It was one of those things that started out small but got bigger and more complex over time until it collapsed under its own weight. Now that the owners aren’t really USERS anymore, I suppose they just don’t wanna bother with it.
I participated in the BrotherHood Challenge. @CrazyDave is my hero for all he does supporting this site. I don’t think you can draw any conclusions as to why there was not more participation in the BrotherHood compared to the old Build Challenges. The entire format of the challenge forum was different. The build challenges are under their own sub forum, consolidated, easily found and followed. Management did not make this sub-forum format available. Of course an owner can do as they wish with their business and we have the freedom to stop participating in this site if we so choose OR try to respectfully make the point to the moderators, administrators, and owners the importance of the challenges to this community and to their best business interests to invest the time and resources in these challenges. The owners are getting input from somewhere. We do not know what that input is. This is my way of giving my input to all concerned. The challenges are valuable to the members and I truly believe to the long-term viability and profitability of this site. You stated "People seem to come and go a lot more than they used to." Maybe that should be a wakeup call to the ownership and to the people providing input to the ownership. A site NEEDS to be relevant to the needs of the community it relies on.
The goal of the organizers of the challenge was good. It was tiered, experienced builders, parts builders and so on. There was a goal on one tier…like reproduce a ’59 road worn tele, or whatever. The idea was to give a real challenge to the experienced builders but still have a challenge to less experienced builders. Some really wonderful guitars were built that would NEVER have been built otherwise. Builders on this site are amazing! It was hard work setting up the challenge and rules to control it and monitoring to administrate it. Actually the moderators did a really GREAT job. If you had been around here a long time you understood the rules…If you were new some were not so obvious. I may open some old wounds. In the 2014 challenge this build was eliminated for breaking a rule at the very end of challenge. I was in this challenge and this was my favorite fellow builder’s project. When I read what the broken rule was I was shocked. I had broken the same rule, I had not understood the rule. I contacted admin and told him the rule was not clear, I was sorry I had broken the rule also and to eliminate me as well. So I was eliminated. No big deal for me, my build was not that special. BUT TeleSky’s was that special and to this day I am so saddened his was eliminated due to what I consider poor wording of a rule.
A ceramic tele????
TeleSky build https://www.tdpri.com/threads/teleskys-former-2014-challenege-build-la-claybronita.467560/page-4
Just do the BroBuild when it comes around again. Dave made it fun and the submissions were unbelievable. There was no pressure at all and it was such a pleasure to participate.
Davecam48 said on 23 Sept., 2013
"Next year I put propose that we make it an open design build where we bring our own design/innovation/or something hither-to before never seen."
I'm still working on my brotherhood build(s). I liked the energy that the challenges brought - the challenge part of it was pretty transformative as in some cases everyone had to do things like build their own necks... That put about 50 people on this forum that could now make their own necks and we all learned from each other's approaches. I don't think many of us ever looked at it as a competition - but the feedback and encouragement was awesome. It certainly started small - build a $100 guitar... and we were all blown away by what we saw. If one looks at the level of innovation on the last challenge and compare that to any of the work that people were talking about here back in in 2009 they would see the huge leap forward we made - or perhaps the talent that already existed that got pulled in. I know for me, I really got a lot out of the challenges and I still play many of those guitars all the time. I'm very grateful for them though. I think a lot of people stumble in here and the thought of making your own guitar might seem like a situation where someone is just trying to save money and build something that is marginal as an instrument, but when some get to the point where the realize that they can make their own guitar that is completely designed for them and is better than anything one could buy or have made... a passion ignites for this stuff: I think that's what the challenges did for many of us.
Could we recapture that? Or, should we do that some other way? I'm not sure, the challenges came up at just the right time for this community to kind of grow all at the same time. The brotherhood builds are an awesome idea - I'm sorry I did not support them by participating as much as I had planned; life (all good this time) keeps getting in the way of me finishing my builds.
On top of any Brotherhood build this year, maybe that is what we should do as a community - "Everyone finish all of the build threads we started before the end of the year...". I know I have 4 or 5 that are waiting on my attention now that I have the time to do a bit more.
Don't overlook how the internet has changed over the years.
Every forum on the internet that succeeded was only because of the forum members input.
Some of the message boards or forums were sponsored by a generous member, some were paid for by contributions.
When people realized that there was profit in the forums, that's when the problems started.
Now forums are rated as to their profitability, and that means forum traffic - people who can be influenced by ads.
From an owners perspective the ideal forum has an absolute minimum of overhead costs, but lots of traffic.
I've seen an antique motorcycle forum taken over by owners who've never ridden anything but a new mo-ped; no knowledge of antique bikes and no interest in learning about them.
Some of these forums operate just like absentee landlords. Absolute minimum of upkeep, just keep the payments coming.
I trust that my position on this is clear .
I don't think anyone would operate a forum for profit - the hours/revenue to get it to be financially worth doing are not really there. I believe any revenue that this forum generates likely just goes to making this forum doable for those that run it.
One thing that was clearly proven is that writing competition rules is not as easy as it might appear.
That was then, this is now, and it’s why we don’t see the owners posting anymore. It’s absolutely a business, and they are running a TON of em.