What does it mean when a dynamic mic needs a good preamp?

Discussion in 'Recording In Progress' started by etype, Apr 15, 2019.

  1. etype

    etype Tele-Afflicted

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    I have a Fender Acoustic 100 amp (I just got it) and I intend to use it at home with some musician friends (miking (micing?) an acoustic guitar and/or vocals). Reading threads on another site (the thread was 8 years old so I couldn't ask a follow up), I came across some agreement that a certain 1970s vintage German made dynamic mic (RFT DM622) was great for an acoustic guitar with one caveat. Posters said you'd need a good preamp because the mic was low output. Any idea if the Fender has that? I assume it means, like a low output guitar pickup, you'd need to turn up the volume knob to get the same dBs.
     
  2. GuitarPix

    GuitarPix Tele-Meister

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    Just cranking the volume on a preamp to get volume also tends to mean you get a lot of hiss. Some preamps have a bit more gain to them so they can work with quiet mics like that one or ribbon mics which are also quiet.

    60db of gain probably wouldn’t be enough for that mic or a ribbon mic, gain of at least 70db would be wanted. Your preamp (or one you’re considering) will have the amount of gain listed in the specs.

    You can get in-line add-on preamps (which just boost- there’s no controls) like the CloudLifter or Triton FetHead - they run off phantom power. Also handy with ribbon mics so you don’t have to worry about forgetting to turn off phantom power.

    But, an sm57 gets a great tone and doesn’t need so much gain. It should be noted amps tend to be played louder than most people sing so if you’re using a dynamic mic for singing such as an sm58, or sm7b you probably want a higher gain preamp.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
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  3. warrent

    warrent Friend of Leo's

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    Your amp has a mic input so it should work ok. The output impedance of the RFT DM622 is 200 ohms so it's pretty close to a sm57. You just need to have the right adapter so you use the xlr input on the FA 100.
     
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  4. teletimetx

    teletimetx Doctor of Teleocity

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    I'm not quite clear on what you're asking here or what your plans are.

    You are playing music with friends, at home and you intend to use your Fender acoustic amp for amplifying your guitar. Your guitar does not have some sort of pickup in it? Apparently not, as you say you will be micing it and running the mic through your amp. Ok? what kind of mic do you have or intend to use? Are you asking for mic recommendations?

    The Fender acoustic amp is pretty much set up for exactly what you are describing. You've got 2 channels to work with and either one will take an XLR or 1/4 inch plug. Do you plan on vocals or just guitar?

    If you are intending just to rehearse or play for fun, but not record - sure a preamp is nice - and there are plenty of options there, but if you are planning on just playing at home, then it's just a matter of how much you want to spend and asking yourself will spending some sum of money make it more fun or not? You don't really, really need it for just playing...a person could say you don't really even need the amp, either. Pure acoustic guitars and vocals in a room with just the players doesn't really need amplification...

    If you are planning to record what you are playing, then an DI digital conversion interface, with phantom power, might be closer to what you should be thinking about.

    If you're planning on rehearsing with an eye for gigging, that's a whole 'nother something
     
  5. 24 track

    24 track Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    I use an electrovoice PL 20 a beautiful mic every radio station in the world uses them but it needs a good preamp to get it to perform to optimum

    e17vehwh8o4hbauuaweb.jpg

    so I looked on Ebay and found this for 20.00 . the first thing I did was open it up and remove the cheap 12ax7 tube and replaced it with a brand new one , it is dead quiet and works beautifully , plus I could use it for atube powered DI if I nee one

    TubeMP-large.jpg
     
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  6. warrent

    warrent Friend of Leo's

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    The preamp recommendations are all great however if you plan to use a preamp with the FA100 you will need to use the aux input. Dumping a line level signal into either the instrument input or the mic input is going to create distortion. The FA100 has a mic preamp it even provides phantom power if you need it.
     
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  7. etype

    etype Tele-Afflicted

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    No one's guitar has a built in pickup (I guess we are all too old-school). But we also have electrics and guitar amps, so the Acoustic 100 will be used either 1) two vocalists or 2) one vcal and one acoustic guitar. No plans to record, it is just fun evening stuff. I tend to agree with no need for amplification, but the guys I play with like it. ANd it's kind of fun to be a little more serious about it.
     
  8. etype

    etype Tele-Afflicted

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    The SM57 was where I was headed until I heard about this 70s East German option. It is probably still the best choice for us.
     
  9. noah330

    noah330 Friend of Leo's

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    These days everyone is a "producer". I would take what you read online with a few grains of salt.
     
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  10. teletimetx

    teletimetx Doctor of Teleocity

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    that's all cool.

    Old school? I come from a world before acoustics had any kind of pick ups. (Other than say, archtops that were used as jazz boxes with a pickup attached to the pickguard.)

    anyway, here's another idea: you could get a sound hole pickup, like this one from Seymour Duncan, and not have to worry about having your guitar next to the mic or feed back or plenty of other issues. Not too expensive, fidelity is not perfect, but pretty good for what you have described, plus it will free up a mic for vocals.

    https://www.seymourduncan.com/acoustic/woody-xl?__uuid_ref=5cb4faeddd390

    No affiliation, but I recommend the seymour duncan version because the cable is sturdier and will hold up to more group abuse than some of the other soundhole pickups - and that is based from experience.

    Have fun!
     
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  11. noah330

    noah330 Friend of Leo's

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    Wow! If you don't mind me asking how old are you? The CF-100E came out in like 1954 or something!
     
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  12. teletimetx

    teletimetx Doctor of Teleocity

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    Not at all - born in '52 - but as far as actual use, flattop acoustics were always mic'd for performance until the Ovation era started.

    The CF-100 may have been around, but didn't typically see any acoustic players plugged into the soundboard until the '70's, IIRC.
     
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  13. 24 track

    24 track Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    I use 2 of these as well cheap and sound great I even have their piezo pickup in my classical

    55039c59-108e-4025-a130-2569c88c775f.jpg
     
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