# What CAGED shapes for running licks?

Discussion in 'Tab, Tips, Theory and Technique' started by slinger, Oct 27, 2014.

1. ### boneyguyDoctor of Teleocity

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I understand the "53642" (as Jay has called it) as a way to locate the shapes...whatever works is fine I suppose...but it ignores what is to me the most fundamental aspect of the CAGED shapes....the octave shapes. If we take that away then we aren't getting the whole picture that makes the thing so useful...these shapes aren't rooted to one particular string....they are rooted within an octave shape....I don't think there's a need simplify it further...I think it ultimately detracts from the potential of it's ability to 'unlock' the fretboard....in my opinion of course.

2. ### JayFreddyPoster Extraordinaire

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Look again Boney, they're there...

5&3=A form octave
3&6=G form...
6&4=E form...
4&2=D form...
2&5=C form.

So it's exactly the octaves, just another name for them.

If you can find the octave on the 2&5 strings, you've found them, and you don't even have to call it the "C form".

Personally I think "C form" is easier to remember, but so many people seem to get confused by this, I think the "53642" approach will help the light go on for some folks.

3. ### boneyguyDoctor of Teleocity

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Oh I realized that they were the CAGED shapes Jay...that was apparent to me...(I think if you re-read my previous post you'll see that now) What I'm commenting on is ignoring the octave and seeing only one note on a particular string as a way of marking out the shapes...that's what his post was about...using only one note to 'see' the shapes....I see that as not using the full potential of the CAGED map....the power is in seeing the octaves in my opinion.

4. ### JayFreddyPoster Extraordinaire

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Agree 100%.

Just seems that since some people can look right at 'em and not see 'em, an alternative approach that leads to the same result is positive reinforcement.

Boney, you know you are and always will be the undisputed TDPRI prophet of the CAGED... Um... Thingy.

5. ### Ian TTele-Holic

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I once went to a Pat Martino masterclass. He is an interesting dude. He had this whole system of viewing the fretboard that is based off the diminished 7th chord and augmented triads, which are symmetrical shapes. Basically, if you change raise or lower any note of these chord forms by a 1/2 step, you'll get all of the chord forms.

It's pretty interesting, but it made my head hurt. CAGED is so much easier.

6. ### PapaHTele-Meister

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Actually, the way I use the 53642 is simpler than that:

The number (5,3,6,4 or 2) is the string where my pinky will land on the root note of the major pentatonic box.

7. ### Leon GrizzardFriend of Leo's

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I used to have a book (maybe still do) the catagorized the major scale positions by string and finger where the roots were, like R62 or something meaning root on the 6th under the 2d finger.

8. ### jippFriend of Leo's

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i find it quite fascinating this subject. i can find the octaves easy enough. but yeah finding scale shapes around them unless i have it memorized not so much. but i guess ill just have to pay my dues and memorize more scales.. im glad im in no rush, as i use this guitar stuff to help ignore my chronic pain..
if i could play music down the road that be cool. laughs
chris

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Pat's harmony ideas are instrument-agnostic. You could apply them to piano. You can not apply CAGED to piano.

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11. ### rogbTele-Afflicted

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Thank you for that. I downloaded that and worked through it slowly again and again and the C A G E D patterns for the C 1-3-5 triad suddenly fell under my fingers along the fretboard.
I think this is going to really help. Also I think knowing some octaves helped with locating the notes.

12. ### JayFreddyPoster Extraordinaire

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Kirk Lorange is a great player and an insightful teacher.

Once you can see the major chord forms as they move up the neck, go back and re-read what BoneyGuy has been saying all along about the OCTAVE FORMS...

Once you see the octaves, you realize it's not just the major chords that move up the neck following the CAGED pattern... It's ALL CHORDS.

For example:

Cm
x-3-1-0-1-x

Am
x-0-2-2-1-0

Gm
3-1-0-1-1-1

Em
0-2-2-0-0-0

Dm
x-0-0-2-3-1

Cm up the neck:

x-3-1-0-1-x

x-3-5-5-4-3

8-6-x-8-8-8

8-10-10-8-8-8

x-10-10-12-13-11

G7 up the neck

3-2-0-0-0-1

3-5-3-4-6-5

x-5-5-7-6-7

x-10-9-10-8-x

x-10-12-10-12-10

etc...

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Yes, at the same time you learn CAGED, you can learn the drop-2 and drop3 forms.

14. ### JayFreddyPoster Extraordinaire

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What are these? Never heard this term before. Can you post some examples?

Nevermind... Googled it. Just another way of looking at inversions.

Not quite sure why you would mention that... The Drop 2 or Drop 3 forms will be the same as the regular CAGED forms.

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16. ### DownsmanTele-Meister

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That's an amazing video. I thought I'd figured out Caged, but that was the best explanation of the Why I've seen. Seems obvious now, but what I hadn't twigged was that by seeing the 5 different shapes in the same position, you can easily match your soloing to the chord progression without changing positions (unless you want to). Another lightbulb moment.

17. ### rogbTele-Afflicted

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Yeah another really helpful way of looking at things.
Thanks to all for helping the blind to see CAGED

18. ### HerodTele-Meister

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Yes, this guy does a pretty good job explaining. When I teach this subject I start by teaching each of the barre "shapes" (C A G E D) and their roots, then we cover how they move up the fretboard (like in this video), then I focus on how the Maj barre shapes convert to minor barre forms.....then I add movable "chord scales" using barre shapes....for instance, if the C shape is your I chord, then ii=Dmin shape, iii=emin shape, IV=E shape, V=G shape, vi=Amin shape, then I teach a dim shape that fits the chord scale for vii.....now you can move the whole chord scale around the neck shifting your root I (or root vi......or any other modal root as you get more advanced) ...... I wait until the student knows the scalular patterns well before approaching this (including understanding the full scale patterns and how they relate to Pentatonic and blues scales).....this makes it easier for them to relate a particular pattern over a particular chord scale .... I agree that (fully) understanding the scale-chord relationships is really an important part of guitar fretboard theory

19. ### boneyguyDoctor of Teleocity

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In my experience I think a really useful place to begin with CAGED (or any other fretboard map) is the idea of the 'moveable nut'....this is my term that I coined for it anyway. If we begin there it makes the concept of why and how CAGED works very simple.

The 'moveable nut' concept is just that once we start moving chords and scales up the neck out of that first fret, cowboy chord area, our first finger (pointing finger) becomes the nut...it takes over the job of what the nut was doing in the open chords. I think this takes some of the mystery out of what is going on and it explains or helps conceptualize why the shapes remain the same as we go up the neck...because in reality you're simply moving the nut up the neck...so all those shape relationships remain the same.

20. ### MjarkDoctor of TeleocitySilver Supporter

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I'm far from any kind of guitar genius or good musician but I saw that years and years ago. I didn't know the term of course. If you've used a capo it's kind of obvious isn't it?

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