What CAGED shapes for running licks?

Discussion in 'Tab, Tips, Theory and Technique' started by slinger, Oct 27, 2014.

  1. jbmando

    jbmando Poster Extraordinaire Gold Supporter

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    What, exactly, about CAGED prevents this? This post tells me you haven't read the thread. CAGED is not about common patterns to sound like other people.
     
  2. klasaine

    klasaine Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    As JB says above, CAGED has absolutely nothing to do with what notes one may or may not hit at any given time. It's just their ordering on the fretboard of a 6 string guitar tuned in 'standard' tuning. There's nothing you can do about it (other than re-tune). It's just there and exists whether you choose to see it or not. Or use it - ? I don't but I don't deny that it's there.

    *We all use a system. Regardless of what or how individually unique that system is or what patterns it consists of ... we all use a system. I absolutely have a way of seeing the fretboard that has evolved (and probably will continue to evolve) over the years. Some of it lines up with what is called CAGED and some of it doesn't. I tend to think (and see on the guitar) very intervallically (4ths) so that BEAD thingy works for me. I also see arrangements of pitches in repeating patterns of minor 3rds.
    My point being that even if you don't see the m3 patterns I see - ? ... I can show you where they exist on your instrument.
     
  3. Matt G

    Matt G Tele-Afflicted

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    Out of curiosity, why? Am wondering if there's a fresh approach here that I should take a look at. . . .
     
  4. trev333

    trev333 Telefied Ad Free Member

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    ""It's just there and exists whether you choose to see it or not.""

    exactly ..... I might be already using it..... without having to know what it is called.. eh?.... ;)... it'd be reverse engineering to study it.....

    anyone who has studied the note patterns on a FB long enough...will see where the repeating groups/patterns are.... even as a piece of art on a page...
     
  5. klasaine

    klasaine Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Do you mean why do I tend to view it intervallically or more specifically in 4ths?
    The broad answer is that chords/harmony are built from intervals and my guitar is what I play those chords on.

    Why specifically do I favor 4ths? To me, music tends to move forward in 4ths. Also, other than the 3rd/2nd string (B and G string) relationship, the guitar is tuned in 4ths. Always seemed like a 'natural' to me.
     
  6. JayFreddy

    JayFreddy Poster Extraordinaire

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    With regards to teaching BEAD, e.g., 4ths, I've had good luck with the mnemonic, "Battle Ends And Down Goes Charlie's Father."

    I like it for teaching the cycle of 5ths too, because then it works in reverse, "Father Charlie Goes Down And Ends Battle."

    Since 4ths and 5ths are inversions, I find that makes a good springboard to talk about other inversions and chord spelling.

    EDIT: Would love to find a better mnemonic for this that works in both directions... I've been trying to find one for years to no avail! :oops: Any help would be greatly appreciated! ;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
  7. Mjark

    Mjark Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Do you feel it goes the other way in 5ths?
     
  8. klasaine

    klasaine Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Absolutely ...
    But I don't think that way. Music to me, in a very broad and general sense, moves forward by the 4th interval (Blues, Autumn leaves, Vivaldi, etc.). For example: when I re-harm and/or add and substitute chord changes I don't 'back-cycle' (in 5ths, which is the standard way) to my 'target' chord. I front cycle in 4ths. Music to me moves forward, not backward.

    Of course I know that there's a ton of songs/music that goes from I to V. But it's the V going back to I - movement of a 4th - that I feel is the more concrete, climactic, final, etc. motion. I'm interested in the resolve.
     
  9. Matt G

    Matt G Tele-Afflicted

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    Now I get it. This is the same thing that Michael Lydon wrote about in How to Play Classic Jazz Guitar, in one of the chapters on chord progressions.

    Whereas, at my humble level of play, when I'm trying to pick my way through a series of notes in a solo, which often leaves me circling the fretboard like a lost bush pilot, I'm praying to find a 3rd to land on (1st, 3rd or 5th). So that's the mental fretboard map I've been operating with.
     
  10. Larry F

    Larry F Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    Thinking about playing in one position for a period of time, I am going to use the wonderful resources provided by YouTube (I am not being sarcastic) to listen and watch different guitarists improvised in blues and jazz. Off the top of my head, I think the Joe Pass and BB King are two guys who stay in one position for a while. I'll have to look at other players and see if I can generalize about this.

    My own approach is what you could call narrative, in which my solos might seem to tell a story. I use devices like transitions, juxtaposition, deception, call and response, good cop and bad cop, tension and resolution, episodes, motives, and the like to bring the listener along with me as I explore a story. In doing this, I use the fingerboard to give voice to these ideas. The fingerboard gives me high-low characterizations, as well as dark-bright, choked-full throated, and ringing-muffled dialogs. Such coloristic techniques as trills, slides, and bends rely on the fingerboard to bring them to life.

    I'm going to have to break this off, as house-activities need my attention.
     
  11. JayFreddy

    JayFreddy Poster Extraordinaire

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    Bill Leavitt also stayed in one position for extended periods of time. I was lucky to get on Bill's lesson schedule for one semester while I was at Berklee.

    Your summation of Bill's "rules" for fingering scales are on target, but I don't remember him ever breaking them down like that. His attitude was more like, "Wouldn't you rather do it the easy way? ;) :)"

    Complete with the wink and smile! :cool:

    Private lessons with Bill were a huge eye-opener for me, because I had studied out of his books with several other teachers previously, and they were all far more dogmatic than Bill was.

    In person, Bill was very laid back and non-dogmatic. In retrospect it's obvious, but much of Bill's method books made more sense when Bill himself was doing the explaining... Wish I had been a better student! :oops:
     
  12. jipp

    jipp Friend of Leo's

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    i finally got time to read the url bones posted.. and this jumped out of the page..

    It's taught the wrong way
    Of course, the CAGED system DOES have one advantage. If you already know how to play pentatonic scales, then you can start playing modal scales by adding modal notes to them. For instance, if you are playing the Am pentatonic, and add the notes B and F# then you are effectively playing the Dorian scale. In this case, starting form the 5 standard pentatonic patterns and adding the modal notes you will obtain the CAGED patterns. In other words, the CAGED patterns are a nice way to go between pentatonic scales and diatonic/modal scales... And that's about it. The curious thing is that I have never seen the CAGED system taught this way. All the educational resources that I have about CAGED insist a lot about the fact that the scale patterns are superimposed on the major chord shapes, but do not even mention the pentatonic/modal connection. It is quite interesting that the CAGED system is branded as a "general" system that can handle any playing situation well (which is not true) and it is not explained in the area where it would shine.

    then under it he says caged means something different to everyone.. but i do not see how as its just how the fretboard is laid out.. makes you wonder what made this guy go on a bashing something that really has no reason to be bashed as its the back bone of the standard tuning.

    bones did you get time to read all of it? anything else he say pop out as odd to you? i know i do not understand the ( i used system, but i do not think calling caged a system is accurate.. would a grid be more accurate?) fully to benefit.. but i know its there.. which seems like a more positive way to look at something other than what this guy seems to be.. i wonder what made him decide everything about caged is wrong.. minus the one bit he figures is all that caged is good for and thats using it to teach modes with the pentatonic scale..

    the human mind is sure interesting. ..

    here is the link in case some missed it.

    http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/less...the_caged_system_for_guitar_scales_sucks.html


    chris
     
  13. boneyguy

    boneyguy Doctor of Teleocity

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    I read some sections and skimmed others...but I quickly got the gist of what he was saying and why he was saying it.....why?..because he doesn't really grasp the fundamental application of CAGED...and you know what?.....I don't really blame him or others....I think there's a lot of poor teaching of CAGED....in fact I think the main CAGED resource out there, Fretboard Logic, is not the best description of the pattern...it's one of the reasons people get the impression it's simply an alternative to learning scale positions because that's very much how Fretboard Logic is laid out....too bad IMO.

    And yeah, the human mind is interesting....one of the least useful things people do with their minds, IMO, is that very common thing of going "Oh! That's just like....." ....that's probably the worst strategy for learning anything new...looking for differences from what we already know rather than similarities is usually a more productive strategy for acquiring new approaches and understandings.... IMO.....but over and over again people sort information looking for similarity and because that's what they're looking for they wind up with the conclusion "Oh! CAGED is just another way of describing scale positions"....and it's not....that's what I've noticed anyway....
     
  14. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    My take on CAGED

    Did anyone else here learn the Mel Bay method? You start in open position, and with friendly keys. C major was easy and so was F major. G major got a little trickier. Why? You had to use your pinky to play F# on the D string. If I CAGED-erise what I just did there, I have the fingering for what CAGED calls C, E and G, except that I did it with open strings.

    You can go on and learn all 12 keys in open position (I don't think Mel Bay goes that far), then transfer those open fingerings to movable fingerings. This gives you 12 fingerings for every key. How does this compare to CAGED? My underlying question is: how inevitable is CAGED fingerings? Can you recreate them from a few assumptions?

    I will work with D major (because I can start with the C shape). Here is the fretboard:

    Code:
    ||---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|[COLOR="Red"]-D-[/COLOR]|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-
    ||---|-C#|[COLOR="Red"]-D-[/COLOR]|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|[COLOR="Red"]-D-[/COLOR]|---|-E-
    ||---|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|[COLOR="Red"]-D-[/COLOR]|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---
    ||---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|[COLOR="Red"]-D-[/COLOR]|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-
    ||---|-B-|---|-C#|[COLOR="Red"]-D-[/COLOR]|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|[COLOR="Red"]-D-[/COLOR]
    ||---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|[COLOR="Red"]-D-[/COLOR]|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-
    
    And here it is, broken down into 5-fret-wide sections:

    II:
    Code:
    ||---|[COLOR="Red"]-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---[/COLOR]|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-
    ||---|[COLOR="Red"]-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---[/COLOR]|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-
    ||---|[COLOR="Red"]-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#[/COLOR]|-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---
    ||---|[COLOR="Red"]-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---[/COLOR]|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-
    ||---|[COLOR="Red"]-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---[/COLOR]|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-
    ||---|[COLOR="Red"]-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---[/COLOR]|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-
    
    III:
    Code:
    ||---|-F#|[COLOR="Red"]-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-[/COLOR]|---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-
    ||---|-C#|[COLOR="Red"]-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#[/COLOR]|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-
    ||---|-A-|[COLOR="Red"]---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-[/COLOR]|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---
    ||---|-E-|[COLOR="Red"]---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-[/COLOR]|---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-
    ||---|-B-|[COLOR="Red"]---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-[/COLOR]|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-
    ||---|-F#|[COLOR="Red"]-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-[/COLOR]|---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-
    
    IV:
    Code:
    ||---|-F#|-G-|[COLOR="Red"]---|-A-|---|-B-|---[/COLOR]|-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-
    ||---|-C#|-D-|[COLOR="Red"]---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-[/COLOR]|---|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-
    ||---|-A-|---|[COLOR="Red"]-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---[/COLOR]|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---
    ||---|-E-|---|[COLOR="Red"]-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---[/COLOR]|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-
    ||---|-B-|---|[COLOR="Red"]-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---[/COLOR]|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-
    ||---|-F#|-G-|[COLOR="Red"]---|-A-|---|-B-|---[/COLOR]|-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-
    
    V:
    Code:
    ||---|-F#|-G-|---|[COLOR="Red"]-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#[/COLOR]|-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-
    ||---|-C#|-D-|---|[COLOR="Red"]-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---[/COLOR]|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-
    ||---|-A-|---|-B-|[COLOR="Red"]---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-[/COLOR]|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---
    ||---|-E-|---|-F#|[COLOR="Red"]-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-[/COLOR]|---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-
    ||---|-B-|---|-C#|[COLOR="Red"]-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#[/COLOR]|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-
    ||---|-F#|-G-|---|[COLOR="Red"]-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#[/COLOR]|-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-
    

    VI:
    Code:
    ||---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|[COLOR="Red"]---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-[/COLOR]|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-
    ||---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-|[COLOR="Red"]---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-[/COLOR]|---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-
    ||---|-A-|---|-B-|---|[COLOR="Red"]-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---[/COLOR]|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---
    ||---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|[COLOR="Red"]---|-A-|---|-B-|---[/COLOR]|-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-
    ||---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|[COLOR="Red"]---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-[/COLOR]|---|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-
    ||---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|[COLOR="Red"]---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-[/COLOR]|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-
    

    VII:
    Code:
    ||---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|[COLOR="Red"]-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---[/COLOR]|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-
    ||---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---|[COLOR="Red"]-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---[/COLOR]|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-
    ||---|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|[COLOR="Red"]-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#[/COLOR]|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---
    ||---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|[COLOR="Red"]-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#[/COLOR]|-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-
    ||---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---|[COLOR="Red"]-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---[/COLOR]|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-
    ||---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|[COLOR="Red"]-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---[/COLOR]|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-
    
    VIII:
    Code:
    ||---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|[COLOR="Red"]---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-[/COLOR]|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-
    ||---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#|[COLOR="Red"]-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-[/COLOR]|---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-
    ||---|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|[COLOR="Red"]---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-[/COLOR]|---|-A-|---|-B-|---
    ||---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|[COLOR="Red"]---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-[/COLOR]|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-
    ||---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-|[COLOR="Red"]---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-[/COLOR]|---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-
    ||---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|[COLOR="Red"]---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-[/COLOR]|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-
    
    IX:
    Code:
    ||---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---|[COLOR="Red"]-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---[/COLOR]|-F#|-G-|---|-A-
    ||---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|[COLOR="Red"]---|-A-|---|-B-|---[/COLOR]|-C#|-D-|---|-E-
    ||---|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---|[COLOR="Red"]-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---[/COLOR]|-A-|---|-B-|---
    ||---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|[COLOR="Red"]-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---[/COLOR]|-E-|---|-F#|-G-
    ||---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---|[COLOR="Red"]-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---[/COLOR]|-B-|---|-C#|-D-
    ||---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---|[COLOR="Red"]-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---[/COLOR]|-F#|-G-|---|-A-
    
    X:
    Code:
    ||---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|[COLOR="Red"]-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#[/COLOR]|-G-|---|-A-
    ||---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|[COLOR="Red"]-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#[/COLOR]|-D-|---|-E-
    ||---|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-|[COLOR="Red"]---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-[/COLOR]|---|-B-|---
    ||---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|[COLOR="Red"]---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-[/COLOR]|---|-F#|-G-
    ||---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#|[COLOR="Red"]-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-[/COLOR]|---|-C#|-D-
    ||---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|[COLOR="Red"]-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#[/COLOR]|-G-|---|-A-
    
    XI:
    Code:
    ||---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|[COLOR="Red"]---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-[/COLOR]|---|-A-
    ||---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|[COLOR="Red"]---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-[/COLOR]|---|-E-
    ||---|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---|[COLOR="Red"]-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---[/COLOR]|-B-|---
    ||---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---|[COLOR="Red"]-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---[/COLOR]|-F#|-G-
    ||---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|[COLOR="Red"]---|-A-|---|-B-|---[/COLOR]|-C#|-D-
    ||---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|[COLOR="Red"]---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-[/COLOR]|---|-A-
    
    XII:
    Code:
    ||---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---|[COLOR="Red"]-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---[/COLOR]|-A-
    ||---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|[COLOR="Red"]-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---[/COLOR]|-E-
    ||---|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#|[COLOR="Red"]-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-[/COLOR]|---
    ||---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|[COLOR="Red"]-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#[/COLOR]|-G-
    ||---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|[COLOR="Red"]-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#[/COLOR]|-D-
    ||---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---|[COLOR="Red"]-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---[/COLOR]|-A-
    
    XIII:
    Code:
    ||---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-|[COLOR="Red"]---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-[/COLOR]
    ||---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|[COLOR="Red"]---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-[/COLOR]
    ||---|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|[COLOR="Red"]---|-A-|---|-B-|---[/COLOR]
    ||---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|[COLOR="Red"]---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-[/COLOR]
    ||---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|[COLOR="Red"]---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-[/COLOR]
    ||---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---|-C#|-D-|---|-E-|[COLOR="Red"]---|-F#|-G-|---|-A-[/COLOR]
    
    1. There's a duplicated note on the B and G strings. Play which ever one is more convenient, or always play the note on the B string -- your call.

    2. II and III are the CAGED C fingerings. IV and V are the CAGED A fingerings. VI and VII are the CAGED G fingerings. VIII is redundant. IX and X are the CAGED E fingerings. XI and XII are the CAGED D fingerings. XIII is redundant.

    3. The fact that there are two fingerings for each CAGED shape isn't always stressed. Some people find one of the two easier to play and focus on that one. Take the E shape for example. XI is the fingering we did (in open position) for F major and X is the fingering we did for E major. XI is easier to finger because it spans only 4 frets, but for some lines XI may be easier to use.
     
  15. P Thought

    P Thought Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Plundertown (Gasville) OR
    BigDaddy, that is the way I see CAGED. boneyguy's octave shapes, pentatonic scales, chord shapes, and everything else all fit on the map you show above, and when you change your starting position, the key changes, but all the configurations remain exactly the same. If your fretboard were 50 ft. long, the patterns would repeat in the same sequence, after every five variations.

    I keep meaning to find and learn two- and three-note combinations in each of the forms that work for the 7 major and minor chords basic to any key. . .I know they're there, their secret is no secret.
     
  16. klasaine

    klasaine Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    When I was learning how to read (music) one of my teachers made me 'read' at (or around) the 5th fret, 9th fret and 12th fret positions. I could adjust for range of course.
    I quickly figured out that finding/seeing the octave shapes were my best friends.
     
  17. Pualee

    Pualee Tele-Holic

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    Can you expand here please? I'm actually going through Fretboard Logic right now, and enjoying it... I'd like to know what is a better approach, and where to jump off.
     
  18. boneyguy

    boneyguy Doctor of Teleocity

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    I sure don't mean to dissuade you from using Fretboard Logic....I used the first one myself years ago but after some weeks of thinking about it after reading it and having it really dawn on me that the octave shapes are what actually 'drives' the whole CAGED thing, I just felt that presenting the CAGED pattern initially in octave shapes would be much more useful and it organizes the whole fretboard in a very simple, easy to see way.

    After recognizing the octave shapes then you can begin to fill in whatever you want from there...scale tones, arpeggios, chords,....but the octaves are the guide posts to doing that. Also I've noticed that using octave shapes tends to show how to connect vertical positions with each other so that you can begin to use the fretboard in a horizontal fashion much easier.

    Seeing octave shapes completely side steps the common mistake of thinking that CAGED is just vertical scale positions or chord shapes and scale positions and chord shapes is the beginning point of the FBL series....

    I think Truefire now has an octave shape CAGED course if I'm not mistaken...so other folks it seems have the same idea that it should be initially taught that way.
     
  19. jipp

    jipp Friend of Leo's

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    this has been a helpful thread which i have booked mark.. to come back when im ready to absorb all the info and digest it. im looking at buying the grid system books.

    basically he lays out chords and what not in a organized way.. i do not want a chord bible.. i want something that teach s them.. and it seems his approach sorta takes how the fretboard works into consideration.

    http://www.musiciansfriend.com/book...ys-complete-set?rNtt=Guy's Publishing&index=2

    it sure is hard learning on ones own. heh. i know i waste to much time on things i should not be.. but in the end.. this is not about how fast i learn.. its about the enjoyment i get out of spending time with my instrument.
    and i use this as a form of therapy to try and take my mind off my healthy and chronic pain issues. before i found the guitar i mentally ready to give up. but the guitar has given me hope, something to think about. etc. the guitar is a great tool. one of the better things man has invented.. id take a guitar over a bullet any day :p

    thanks for everyone's input on this thread, it has help a lot. even if im not ready to absorb it all..

    chris.
     
  20. Pualee

    Pualee Tele-Holic

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    Well, I finished going through Fretboard Logic in about a month. It helped me connect a few dots that needed connecting.

    I've just started Fretboard Logic II this week... it appears to build on CAGED in book I... going from the pentatonic ... to diatonic (major, 3 minors, modes, etc.).

    To be honest, I'm really enjoying it. Considering the 'criticism' of that series on this page may be valid. But at this point in my journey, I like this book a lot. Maybe in a few more months, I'll go to the octaves approach, or something else entirely?

    Personally, I approach a subject from 100 different angles, and never do anything hard... but eventually, I find something that is the right material at the right time, and it clicks. That is where I am now :cool: I have noticed that Fretboard Logic doesn't teach notes (mostly) but rather teaches intervals and steps. I am learning notes as well, and I think knowing the Fretboard and Scale by 'note' in combination with knowing the intervals... is very complimentary, and one helps establish the other.
     
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