ravindave_3600

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Well if I understood you correctly, playing blues guitar with chops somehow degrades the music. Does that qualify as pop?

Not necessarily an either / or:
Yngwie has tons of chops and can't play blues.
John Lee Hooker didn't have tons of chops and could play blues.
Billy Gibbons has chops AND can play blues.
 

telemnemonics

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Well if I understood you correctly, playing blues guitar with chops somehow degrades the music. Does that qualify as pop?
Here again when you quote one oe two words if a long description you degrade the description.

FWIW, I do not play Blues and i consider lots of music one might call "blues with chops" to be a large upgrade!
Upgrade like the lux package added to a pickup truck, nice for commuting but not needed down on the farm!

Heres one if my favorite examples:

 

telemnemonics

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Not necessarily an either / or:
Yngwie has tons of chops and can't play blues.
John Lee Hooker didn't have tons of chops and could play blues.
Billy Gibbons has chops AND can play blues.
I love all three of those guys and agree that the Rev did a rare fine job of keeping a foot in both blues and pop ir blues and rock.
So did SRV but he was unable to stop or control his urge to serve the god of chops.
 

Happy Enchilada

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There are so many weird and wonderful things surrounding "the blues" these days.
Some folks think the only "real" blues is the old gutbucket delta stuff played by long-dead sons of sharecroppers.
Muddy and Buddy and a whole host of other blues greats came north and west to spread the gospel and add electricity.
Still others dig the more contemporary upbeat/swing sounds from Chicago, St. Louis, Houston, Austin, Tulsa, etc.
English rock musicians co-opted the blues as inspiration, which led to great bands like Led Zep, the Stones, and EC.
Blues DNA runs through most rock music from the '70s on, including J. Geils, Deep Purple, and Foghat to name a few.
The Blues Brothers were highly influential in bringing blues music to the populous, and also made a great movie.
All across this country there are "Blues Societies" where the faithful gather to keep the spark alive.
These organizations support working blues musicians by inviting them to play concerts and further spread the gospel.
Manufacturers put "Blues" in the name of guitars, amps, strings, and other musical items as a marketing ploy.
Blues tunes and blues-based rock tunes are showing up as music beds for TV and radio spots more and more.

So ...

Instead of being a blues snob and declaring certain branches of the family heretics, I prefer to embrace 'em all.
After all, this all started with call-and-response work songs forged under the sweltering delta sun.
Pretty darn amazing and pretty darn American and genuine if you ask me.
So whether it's Muddy or some freckle-faced kid who went on YouTube and figured out the minor pentatonic scale and played it through an OD pedal, it's all blues.
And long as it has a groove, deal me in. 😼

 

aging_rocker

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Punk: two chords

Blues: three chords

Rock: chuck in a relative minor and make it four chords

Metal: five or six chords but all just played with two fingers so they don't really count

Prog rock: a tidal wave of chords, most of them impossible to play on anything other than an authentic fourteenth century Moldovan fruit zither unless you have eight fingers or can manage a ten fret stretch

Jazz: no discernible chords. Spend two hours tuning up, accept polite applause and then head backstage with a bottle of thirty year old single malt and some reefer
That's just brilliant - you win the internet today. 😂
 

stephent2

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I've played at the Blues most of my gigging life. I'm a grown up white boy, I get the attraction. Afro American Blues offered view of the world that I preferred. I found it helpful. But I'd never call myself a Bluesman, I have too much respect for the real deal. Just saw 84 year old Buddy Guy last month kick ass, do some schoolin' and take names. He's a Bluesman.

Hat's off to the SRV, EC, JB, etc. but my vote goes for the originators of the art form. Muddy, Wolf, RJ, MJH,.. Afro American Classical Music.
 

ravindave_3600

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Two of my favorites of the contemporary blues players, both talented, clever, and fun. They're what blues needs.

Toronzo Cannon



Mike Wheeler



BTW Mike's bass player, Larry Williams, is MONSTER. If you want to hear some funky fundamentals that will put a smile on your face, check him out.
 

telemnemonics

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Samantha Fish.
Or another lovely, singin’, writin’, playing lady.
Yeah, dat’ it!
I kissed Odetta after a show and I'd kiss Samantha too if she'd have me.
Course, Odetta was 30 years older than me and Samantha is 30 years younger.
Does two wrongs make a right?

Time to write me some Blues tonight, how in hell can two wrongs make a right?

 

Larry F

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When I lived in Chicago (1984-1997), I hit the blue clubs, as often as I could. The Checker Board was my first. Dion Payton played lead and sang. In terms of the visuals, He wore a black cowboy hat, tweed jacket, blue and pressed black cowboy boots. This was the norm for a time. The next guitarist I saw was Lonnie Brooks, in one of the clubs near Lincoln Avenue. I worked at DePaul University, teaching music courses as an adjunct professor. I would sometimes walk over to the club and pop my head in. Lonnie Brooks hit me hard, sounding like Hendrix much of the time. A red 335 Gibson, 345, or 355 were most commonly used by the Chicago bands. No backup guitars in sight.

I was not sure who owned the amps, which tended to be Fender Twins. No pedals were used as far as I can re
member. Keyboards tended to be Clavichords, while drums were the lamest excuse for a musical instrument, but also the most loved. Most of the drummers did not have tom-toms or cymbals. The essential aspect of the drumming I heard was bass drum, snare, and a hi-hat. Don't even think about fills. Bass players used Fender Precisions or Jazz Bass, which tended to be played the most often. I don't remember what amps they used, which is probably a good thing. The rhythm sections were almost always ghosts. They hung way, way back in terms of not drawing attention to themselves.

I wish that I could be more accurate in writing about the rhythm section. Maybe I'll explore this kind of writing later. But now, I'm trying to go to bed. Help me!
 

bottlenecker

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Punk: two chords

Blues: three chords

Rock: chuck in a relative minor and make it four chords

Metal: five or six chords but all just played with two fingers so they don't really count

Prog rock: a tidal wave of chords, most of them impossible to play on anything other than an authentic fourteenth century Moldovan fruit zither unless you have eight fingers or can manage a ten fret stretch

Jazz: no discernible chords. Spend two hours tuning up, accept polite applause and then head backstage with a bottle of thirty year old single malt and some reefer

F-
 

Robert Alger

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No, I did not mean it that way ....
I didn't mean to sound that way.

There is another thread on here talking about how most guitar demo videos feature someone playing blues riffs. If the people selling the guitars and effect pedals are making videos that speak to their target audience. Perhaps whats being discussed here as "blues" is more prevalent then it appears.

I miss Stevie too.

Saw this guy last month, great show. Straight John lee hooker riff.

 

bgmacaw

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There is another thread on here talking about how most guitar demo videos feature someone playing blues riffs.

Either that or metal-ish wheedles or chugs.

What's funny is that if you publish a YouTube pedal demo with a blues/blues-rock riff you'll get downvoted and/or dissed by metalheads and vice versa.
 

joe.attaboy

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My understanding is someone is making a movie about Jerry Garcia with Jonah Hill playing Captain Trips. I haven't heard much about it lately, so maybe it's not still happening. I'd probably go see it, but I'm really skeptical about anyone really being able to play Jerry... Particularly given the legions of Deadheads from multiple generations at this point...

-Ray

Jonah Hill, hmmm? This is a good example of this problem...

Why would the creators of this concept choose him? My guess is that his basic "look" provides a foundation for someone who could be "made" to look like Jerry. The right clothes (dark t-shirts, mostly), glasses, the beard (key item), a little makeup and, voilà, Jerry. Whether or not he could hold a guitar, let along actually look convincing trying to play one (and I have no idea if Mr. Hill can play at all) is another question.

What I'm getting to is that the primary goal has been, for a long time, to make the actor appear to resemble the person they are portraying with less regard for what made that person such an interesting or different personality. Philip Seymour Hoffman did Truman Capote and managed to do it right; he had the mannerisms (probably not hard to do, since Capote had easy-to-copy ways of speaking and carrying himself) and he seems to capture Capote's personality very well.

On the other hand, Meryl Streep didn't convince me (at all) in her try at Margaret Thatcher (not a good movie, either).

The tl;dr version of this rant: show me documentary footage of Jerry, of which there is plenty. I want to see him, not an unreasonable substitute.
 

deytookerjaabs

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To play Devil's Advocate (in all due respect)

I don't necessarily love Stevie Ray Vaughan, I respect him.



There once was a man from Texas who wanted to be someone and that he did. He practiced, he polished, he practiced and he polished some more. He saw his heroes, his sibling and he said "that's me too!"

So he set out a plan to ride the flood of ideas he'd been exposed to. He saw Albert & Jimi tune low and he said "I'm going to go down that 1/2 step like Jimi." He heard those booming sharecropper gospel voices like BB and decided he'd force his voice to do that no matter the fact it was completely unnatural...it was necessary to his blues.

Though not a revolutionary in any sense or a man of the late 60's early 70's counter culture what he did take away from those folks was something else: the dress code. Oh yes, now he didn't just co-opt the basics, he co-opted something even more radical: radical self promotion. Genius.

He wasn't stupid, unlike his big hero Mr. Jimi Hendrix, MR. SRV wasn't going to give the people what Jimi did. He wasn't going to bore his audience by exploring different ideas and giving you different emotions every night over the long form. Nor would he craft wild albums as such. After all, who could relate to that in a time when improvisation & experimentation was dying? No, no no, Stevie hit his audience like a tank with the same man and the same chops with the same polish you got on that record every night. Those licks & that down home low brow high attitude shuffle were identical from the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli.

Of course, his most brilliant move was two fold... Monster vibrato whilst doing what the blues guitar men rarely did up until then: Give the 1 & 3 as much importance in your licks, comping, soloing and general feel as the 2 & 4. For this alone allowed the man's "Texas Blues" to open itself up to endless acres of neatly trimmed lawns harboring men of professional employment who could don those tan pants & Hawaiian shirts on a Friday night, yet the 2 & 4 was a lesson they couldn't learn because after all: that was key to real rhythm & blues. Genius, genius like Starbucks level genius.

So now the Blues had a package that worked, it could sell out stadiums! Legions of young folks who also shared those neatly cropped green lawns in their front yard could see the recipe: Tune down, play in positions 2 & 4 but feel it on 1 & 3....the ticket sales were guaranteed, just what "Blues" needed: fame & relatability. No more attractive women trying dance awkwardly listening to Hubert Sumlin's unique feel at the local blues fest, no no, now everyone could bob their heads to the downbeat when Stevie Ray took the stage.

In fact, if I may suggest, we will never see Stevie Ray's full form until in the years to come when in 2024 the legend of SRV is codified in lore by you guessed it: BECOMING THE NEWEST MARVEL SUPERHERO. Super Stevie and his Super Strat will have a trilogy of films where he slays the villains of lesser chops & headlines all the festivals across the globe while the peasants rejoice, brought to you by Disney, thanks for listening everybody, don't forget to subscribe to my channel!
 

telemnemonics

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He was a damn fine player and played what he felt. You may disagree and that's fine, but the guy was still honest as the day is long and always played from the heart.

And that's that from my part. Anyone seen my coat?
Here again, you edited my post which said i loved Stevie and turned it around to say i disagree that he was great.

I was talking about Blues in a thread titled WHAT BLUES NEEDS.

One of the main reasons i cant or dont really play Blues is I'm also unable to resist my urge to serve the god of chops.

Doesn't make a player bad, but makes us servants to a different style of music.
A musician serves the music.
Blues is a simple taskmaster.
Stevie couldn't live in the confines of simple, he needed more space, took more space, and in so doing was no longer straight Blues.

Thats fine!
Music evolves, and becomes something new and different.
Why argue that the new is actually the old?
Kind of a slap in the face to those who forge new styles, saying they are not doing anything new, just reenacting the past.
 




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