What a difference a speaker makes (in a 5F1)!

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by Charlodius, Apr 8, 2020.

Tags:
  1. Charlodius

    Charlodius Tele-Meister

    Age:
    52
    Posts:
    419
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2019
    Location:
    Delaware
    I recently bought a 5F1 circuit amp. The amp is a Joyo Sweet Baby, which is a 5F1 circuit that lacks the cathode bypass cap. The amp came with upgraded tung sol tubes and a Weber alnico. I thought it had the CVA8 but it turns out it’s the 8A100. I found the amp way too dark- to the point of almost muffled- with almost no available breakup. I did the C7 mod, which does the cathode bypass. That opened it up a little- helped it break up a little bit more, but it was still way too dark. I finally swapped the speaker, and behold! That’s the sound I wanted. I tried it with a 66 Jensen C8R and with a 64 Utah 8”, and both were amazing- exactly the champ sound I wanted. I think the Weber would go perfectly in a blackface champ, but it was not what I wanted in a tweed. Now the tough choice is between the Jensen and Utah. Both sound really good!
     
  2. sleazy pot pie

    sleazy pot pie Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    1,456
    Joined:
    May 31, 2014
    Location:
    austin
    Boy, I have the same amp, with the same speaker and the same issue. Super bass heavy and muffled, not at all what I had imagined. I just this week ordered some different value caps for the c7 mod to see if that would help. going to have to check out ebay for some different speakers before I give up.

    thank you for posting.
     
    Treehouse likes this.
  3. sleazy pot pie

    sleazy pot pie Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    1,456
    Joined:
    May 31, 2014
    Location:
    austin
    What is the model on the Utah? Or what UTAH should I be looking for?
     
  4. Charlodius

    Charlodius Tele-Meister

    Age:
    52
    Posts:
    419
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2019
    Location:
    Delaware
    Let me check on the Utah. I mounted the Jensen but I’m thinking of making an extension for the Utah
     
  5. Charlodius

    Charlodius Tele-Meister

    Age:
    52
    Posts:
    419
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2019
    Location:
    Delaware
    When you say you ordered different values for the cap, had you done the mod already and were not happy with the cap you used? I went with 25uf.
     
  6. sleazy pot pie

    sleazy pot pie Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    1,456
    Joined:
    May 31, 2014
    Location:
    austin
    I originally used a 22uf cap and replaced the speaker with a tungsten branded Webber speaker. Don’t know the model off the top of my head.

    I ordered a 2.2uf , 4.7uf and a 10uf
    Today I swapped out the 22uf for a 2.2uf and really like the difference.
    Before the amp was dark and bass heavy. It is brighter now. I like it so far.
     
    Charlodius and tubegeek like this.
  7. Charlodius

    Charlodius Tele-Meister

    Age:
    52
    Posts:
    419
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2019
    Location:
    Delaware

    Let me know what value you settle on-
     
  8. Charlodius

    Charlodius Tele-Meister

    Age:
    52
    Posts:
    419
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2019
    Location:
    Delaware
    5AF38135-801F-401B-BECA-A5922770876A.png D5DEC1B7-10E8-48A0-92D8-662BF421531A.png

    These are the speakers. The Utah is on the left but I can’t find a model number. It is a ceramic mag with a brown frame. View attachment 705920
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2020
  9. printer2

    printer2 Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    6,665
    Joined:
    May 24, 2010
    Location:
    Canada
    I never get the attraction of a single knob amp when the addition of the tone control in the 5F2 makes it so much more usable.
     
    SnidelyWhiplash and old soul like this.
  10. sleazy pot pie

    sleazy pot pie Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    1,456
    Joined:
    May 31, 2014
    Location:
    austin
    Thanks for the heads up on the speakers. I am enjoying the 2.2uf now.

    I wonder if it would be possible to run alligator clips from c7 to try out different caps without having to open up the amp.

    I am going to play it this way for a while , I may order a .68uf but I hate paying 5-7$ shipping for a 25 cent part
     
  11. printer2

    printer2 Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    6,665
    Joined:
    May 24, 2010
    Location:
    Canada

    You could always pay someone $50 to do it.



    Why not put a switch in to be able to select either one?
     
  12. sleazy pot pie

    sleazy pot pie Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    1,456
    Joined:
    May 31, 2014
    Location:
    austin
    The idea is to try the different ones I have until I find the one I like best without having to crack it open half a dozen times.
     
  13. Charlodius

    Charlodius Tele-Meister

    Age:
    52
    Posts:
    419
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2019
    Location:
    Delaware
    I hear what you are saying but they are not making $200 Brownface Princeton amps. I have a ‘65 PRRI and I agree that they can be sculpted into pretty much anything but this has its own thing going on. You can control the tone by either adding an EQ pedal or using a dirt pedal that has tone knobs like the bad monkey or the Dano Daddy-O, which has a 3 band EQ. I recently used a boss SD-1 and I had to turn the treble control down.
     
  14. Charlodius

    Charlodius Tele-Meister

    Age:
    52
    Posts:
    419
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2019
    Location:
    Delaware
    My recommendation is a Jensen C8N because it is bright and has a tighter low end. I would have bought a reissue but I wanted a lower sensitivity and though a vintage one might break up easier. This amp is plenty loud. A vintage Jensen 8” is pretty cheap. I also bought a cheap attenuator- I scored a Carl’s power soak for $30 on FB marketplace. It’s just an L-pad but I’ve wanted something to tame an ungodly loud 5E3 that sounds choked when the volume is turned down. When you dime this circuit it gets mushy but if you turn it up 90% to max and attenuate down it sounds great. I hit the front end of it with a boss SD1 and it put the amp over the top. Like Rocky Mountain Way.

    I’ve read that there is almost no difference between a 22, 25, and 47uf cap at this spot, but you read a lot of things, some true, some not. I was concerned that I’d burn the board, so I just went with the value that was in the original champ.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2020
  15. sleazy pot pie

    sleazy pot pie Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    1,456
    Joined:
    May 31, 2014
    Location:
    austin
    I went from a 22uf to 2.2uf which is a pretty big difference.
    Not quite sure I like it, but I am going to keep it for now.
    I may have gone too far and will try the 10uf next , which will be a middle pony between the two, roughly.

    from what I understand, the 25uf lets ALL frequencies through. As you get smaller, it kills the bass, and pushes the treble and or mids
    I have read a ton, but it isn’t always easy to keep it straight.
    Thanks for the speaker heads up. That will be next, if I feel like I need to.
     
  16. printer2

    printer2 Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    6,665
    Joined:
    May 24, 2010
    Location:
    Canada
    Charlodius likes this.
  17. printer2

    printer2 Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    6,665
    Joined:
    May 24, 2010
    Location:
    Canada
    Not suggesting a Brownface, a 5F2 is just a 5F1 with a tone pot and two extra capacitors. Five bucks in parts, maybe a buck in parts for the manufacturer and the amp is more versatile.
     
    SnidelyWhiplash likes this.
  18. Ess Eff

    Ess Eff Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    708
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2018
    Location:
    Australia
    The addition of the tone knob and a few other small changes on the 5F2 (bigger transformer, more filter caps), changes the entire character of the amp. It is much cleaner/higher headroom. The polite cousin of the 5F1.

    That might sound strange but it's true. The experts on here can explain why. I have both so I just know it's true.
    .
    IMG_20200318_151813.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2020
  19. printer2

    printer2 Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    6,665
    Joined:
    May 24, 2010
    Location:
    Canada
    What I am talking about is not changing anything in a 5F1 other than the addition of the tone knob. As far as different transformers, I doubt it. The larger speaker (mainly) and filter caps (minor) would be the reason for the difference.
     
  20. SnidelyWhiplash

    SnidelyWhiplash Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,504
    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2009
    Location:
    Hoggtown, KY.
    Much prefer a 5F2-A. Every guitarist needs a tweed Princeton.
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.


  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.