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What 12" Speakers will give me more HeadRoom/Tighter Bottom End? PRRI

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by Will13, May 14, 2017.

  1. Will13

    Will13 TDPRI Member

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    Hi Folks,

    Just want to say, I've searched quite a bit and haven't been able to find my answer, so apologies in advance if this has been discussed, I haven't found the info I'm looking for.

    So here's the Deal: I have a FSR Princeton Reverb being delivered soon, it's the Bordeaux Limited Edition that comes is 15 Watts & comes w/ a 12" Jensen P12Q 40 Watt Speaker. I've played the amp a bunch at a guitar center near, and really like it. My only bit of hesitancy, is that I wish their was a bit more clean headroom, and also a tighter low end. Living in Townhouse conditions, so I really prefer The Princeton over the Deluxe Reverb, the DRRI is just too loud for my situation.
    So two main things; (A): Will a different speaker give me those things?...If it changes the sound slightly, that's ok with me. This is really the best amp I've been able to find in my budget ($1000) so if the sound changes slightly, it's ok. and (B): I really want to stick to a 12" Speaker, and not a 10", since the amp is already setup for a 12" and I like somewhat "bigger" sound it provides.

    So to summarize, I'm looking for 12" 8ohm Speaker that would work well with a Princeton Reissue, that has more clean headroom than the Jensen P12Q, a tighter low end, and accepts pedals well.

    Thanks.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2017
  2. Ringo

    Ringo Poster Extraordinaire

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    Eminence Red White and Blues should work great for that.
     
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  3. aerhed

    aerhed Friend of Leo's

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    Red fang has great bottom and 103db sensitivity. Win win.
     
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  4. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Why do you want more headroom for a townhouse? The volume difference between a 15w PRRI with a 12" speaker and a 22w DRRI with the same 12" speaker is very small.

    An 103db speaker in a PRRI will be much louder than a 92db speaker in a DRRI. Both are very loud when turned up until the amp is overdriving.
     
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  5. Will13

    Will13 TDPRI Member

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    You make good points, but to fill you in a little more, there are certain hours of the day (and the fact that I live in a corner unit) that will allow me to be at pretty high volume during certain times. Also, there will be times when I bring it to the studio, or jam where I'll want to crank it more.
     
  6. jackal

    jackal Friend of Leo's Platinum Supporter

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    Lots of good ones out there, I like Eminence speakers, red fang, red white and blues, and lil Texas if you want to lighten it up a little.
     
  7. AlbertaGriff

    AlbertaGriff Tele-Afflicted

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    I wouldn't be able to compare with the speaker you reference for more headroom, but I use a pair of WGS ET-65's in my BF Bandmaster and I love them. I really like WGS as a brand for affordability and quality.
     
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  8. jonrpick

    jonrpick Friend of Leo's

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    The Eminence Cannabis Rex gets my vote...
     
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  9. Mr. Lumbergh

    Mr. Lumbergh Poster Extraordinaire

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    Make it two. Great speaker.
     
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  10. JD0x0

    JD0x0 Poster Extraordinaire

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    Extremely efficient. Zero cone breakup. Means you'll basically maximize your highest possible clean headroom. They typically have a big but controlled low end, and having the stronger lows from the speakers usually means you can turn 'bass' down at the amp. This typically yields less 'flub' 'fart' and makes the bass tighter and more controlled IME.

    Also, IME, open backs tend to hurt efficiency and low end response. My 2x12 always sound flubier when it's run open back as opposed to closed back. I wonder if you threw the Jensen(s) in a nice sealed cab if they'd give you what you want.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2017
  11. homesick345

    homesick345 Poster Extraordinaire

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    103 dbs (Cannabis Rex, or Red Fang) means a good 8 or 9 dbs over the Jensen - this is almost exactly DOUBLE THE PERCEIVED VOLUME

    How that translates in real life is a good couple notches lower on your volume: If by 5 the amp starts distorting with Humbuckers; at 3/3.5 on the dial it should be clean: the Eminence giving you the same volume.
     
  12. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

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    My daughter used to live in a corner town house. My PR is a 1964 with a 1974 CTS alnico in it. No way I could've cranked that up at her place. No way I could crank it in her new house even the neighborhood is packed with houses almost touching.
    A Red Fang or something like it would make it a whole lot louder. If I occasionally needed that I'd think hard about putting a speaker in a cab. Whichever makes the most sence, low efficiency for home, high efficiency for gigs.
     
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  13. uriah1

    uriah1 Telefied Gold Supporter

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    You want clean headroom, get a out of production Celestion Neo Century. Not the vintage century.
    Had major DB and sound like EV or JBL. I think Vox had some in some amps at one time also
    you might find.
     
  14. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    eminence LEgend GB128
     
  15. fjrabon

    fjrabon Tele-Afflicted

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    Yeah, as others have stated, any speaker that will offer you additional headroom will also make your Princeton significantly louder than the deluxe reverb that you said was too loud.

    People think it's the 5-7 watt difference that makes a deluxe louder than a Princeton. But it's the speaker that comes in their typical configurations along with the cab geometry. The wattage difference only accounts for literally, not exaggerating, only 0.8 dB in volume difference. Some of the speakers people are talking about here will make for a 8-11 dB difference which is roughly twice as loud. Such a swap would make the Princeton blow the doors off a stock deluxe reverb volume wise.

    A rule of thumb is that doubling the wattage of an amp only adds 3dB of increased headroom, and that's assuming that the speakers are efficient enough to translate every bit of extra power into volume. More efficient speakers can sometimes double the volume with the same wattage. Especially if you're also throwing in open vs closed back.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2017
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  16. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Another way to look at the power/volume thing is that through the same speakers system one would have to have 150 watts of power to double the volume of that Princeton Reverb. Speakers can either cut or increase volume much more easily than anything else except maybe an attenuator.
    Perhaps the OP should consider the Eminence Maverick, which is a flux density adjustable speaker. One could dial down the volume or turn the amp loose.
     
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  17. homesick345

    homesick345 Poster Extraordinaire

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    This is where the Eminence Reignmaker steps in: you can dial it anywhere between 91 & 99 dbs

    THis is a GREAT idea, perfectly executed - not expensive, that never really picked up

    Too bad. People go stock on your Reignmaker/Maverick before they are discontinued (if not already)
     
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  18. theprofessor

    theprofessor Poster Extraordinaire

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    It seems to me that the two factors of (1) a townhouse and (2) a higher-efficiency speaker with more clean headroom are at odds with each other. If a DRRI was too loud for you, I think a PRRI will also be too loud if you use a high-efficiency speaker. The Cannabis Rex is a nice speaker, but I would be shocked if you did not find it too loud. It's 101.8 dB. The Eminence Legend GB128 is 101.3 dB. The Eminence Red Fang is 102.5 dB. The Eminence Red White and Blues is 101 dB. On the other hand, the Jensen P12Q (8 ohm) that comes in your amp is 94.4 dB.

    While Eminence makes great speakers, I don't think you need to jump up from 94.4 to 101 dB, and certainly not to 102.5! I'd consider speakers that are at about 99 dB. You're still increasing the sensitivity by about 4.5 dB, which, if I understand correctly, is an increase that is clearly audible to the human ear. It seems like a lot of the WGS ceramic 12" speakers that I've looked at hover at about 99 dB. My point is that you really don't need a super-high-efficiency speaker to improve on a 94.4 dB alnico. I think that even if you went with a new ceramic instead of an alnico, you'd be able to notice a difference in efficiency. That said, alnicos are often sweeter and more detailed at lower volumes, and that kind of fits the "townhouse" criterion.

    Sorry I didn't really answer your question. @Wally and @homesick345 's suggestion of an Eminence Maverick seems like a really good one for your situation, as it takes you anywhere from 91-100 dB. That seems perfect for your application and desires, provided that it works as advertised (I've never heard one of these). There are some on reverb.com right now, including used ones that accept offers (no affiliation).
     
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  19. Henry Mars

    Henry Mars Tele-Afflicted

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    If you want more clean head room and decent frequency response I would consider the C. Rex if the sound suits you. The Red Fang is a good choice too. There are speakers with more clarity than the these but I still think they are the best bang for the buck ... at least for my style of playing ... YMMV
     
  20. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    If you are not going to do a Maverick, which does seem like the best option, then the speaker that they put in the stock DRRI might be an option. Highs are present, but not ice-pick; it's loud but not overwhelming, and the lows are very, very full and tight. But it is quite a loud speaker (pardon the pun).
     
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