Were The Doors The Most Perfect Band?

Discussion in 'Music to Your Ears' started by taxer, May 21, 2013.

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  1. Diagoras

    Diagoras Tele-Holic

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    I posted multiple definitions, all of them correct. You've done nothing but play semantics games.

    I find that to be very suspicious.

    Ok, you are definitely not being serious now. Haha, very funny.

    Art is an expression, an application of one's ideas, a personal statement, etc., etc., etc. It all means the same exact thing, despite you dishonestly pretending otherwise.

    But again, carbon-copying someone else's art is just paint-by-numbers. Apparently you disagree with that, but instead of explaining how or why, you just keep desperately trying to change the subject. That is very telling.

    No, I didn't say anything like that, and you know it.

    In fact, I've been very clear. I will say it again for the umpteenth time, and you can once again completely ignore it: not every single thing in a given work of art has to be 100% original. e.g. many musicians play the C chord, most use the 12-tone scale, many guitarists use a pick, many sculptors use their hands, etc. etc., etc.

    So of course if someone re-interprets a jazz tune (as a lot of my favorite jazz musicians have done), then it can be an original work of art. Nothing I have said whatsoever suggests otherwise.
     
  2. jbmando

    jbmando Poster Extraordinaire Gold Supporter

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    Wrong, you posted one claiming it to be from the dictionary. You posted multiple opinions of what you consider to be the definition of "art."

    I am not dishonestly pretending anything. The definition you used did not say "one's ideas." It said "human creative skill." I'll post it again:
    I am not playing semantics here, I am using your words and trying to show that you keep changing them. The originator does not have to be the applicator for a work to be art.

    I think you are playing semantics here by saying:
    You obviously know that that is not what I'm talking about.
     
  3. Diagoras

    Diagoras Tele-Holic

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    More games. Yaaaaaaaaaawn.

    Are you ever going to SAY anything on this subject? Or are you going to just keep playing games?

    "human creative skill" means someone's ideas. Period.

    Are going to just keep denying that?
     
  4. Diagoras

    Diagoras Tele-Holic

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    Since you like semantics games so much, here is a great opportunity for you to play:

    Tell me, what is the difference between expressing your ideas, and applying them?

    And what is the difference between your creative ideas, and ones that come from your imagination? And how are they different from your personal ideas?

    And please be specific.

    What little you've provided of an actual argument suggests that that all these things are somehow totally different from one another, even though it is pretty damn obvious from the various dictionary definitions that they are all referring to the exact same thing.

    So go ahead, let's hear it. This ought to be good for a chuckle.
     
  5. jbmando

    jbmando Poster Extraordinaire Gold Supporter

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    Are you really this obtuse? Look, saying "one's ideas" is not the same as saying "someone's ideas," and it certainly isn't the same as saying "human creative skill." The term "one's ideas" implies that the person expressing or applying the skill is the one who created it. I think you know this as well as I do. Stop playing games. You said one thing and then changed it multiple times to suit your purpose. A work can be art even if it is an application of someone else's creative skill. Period.
     
  6. jbmando

    jbmando Poster Extraordinaire Gold Supporter

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    No, thanks. I believe I'll follow Mr. Clemens' advice about this type of argument.
     
  7. Telemarkman

    Telemarkman Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Amen! Not that it matters much as to whether I like it or not ...
     
  8. Skully

    Skully Doctor of Teleocity

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    Jeez, no. Where'd you get that from what I wrote? If anything, The Doors sold more records because he died.

    The other guy brought record sales into the argument, and I was just playing with it for a bit. Both artists were validated by huge sales. My point was that The Doors did it with wholly original work (cue some schmuck saying, "What about 'Alabama Song,' 'Back Door Man' and 'Crawling King Snake'?!"), not wall to wall cover tunes.
     
  9. Norton72

    Norton72 Tele-Afflicted

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    Remember when I was a kid, about 9 and my aunt was 16. She was on the "original" trip. Original was cool to her. Original came out of her mouth about three dozen times a day. I figured out that it wasn't whatever she was interested in that was cool, only the fact that it was original. She had a bust of Beethoven on top of her piano, (how original is that, didn't Schroeder from the Peanuts have one as well?) I drew a pretty good likeness of it, not just good for a nine year old, but pretty good. She complained that it wasn't "original." My aunt was a dumbass.
     
  10. Rhythm Thief

    Rhythm Thief Tele-Holic

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    Not sure how you can defend Led Zep and Jimmy Plagiarist as artists on the one hand and come out with this definition of art on the other ...
     
  11. greggorypeccary

    greggorypeccary Friend of Leo's

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    I'd say Zep's ratio of "borrowed" blues licks to original stuff is pretty good. I think of Kashmir, The Song Remains The Same, Rain Song, Achilles Last Stand, etc. when I think of Led Zeppelin.
     
  12. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Wow, this thread sure is getting kinda icky... Listen to bands that you enjoy, don't listen to the bands you don't like, and the world will keep on spinning and everybody is happy.
     
  13. franchelB

    franchelB Friend of Leo's

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    Wow...

    I didn't realize that this topic has gone off-topic..
    So, if I may add my $.02:
    I believe it's quite conceited for us musicians to come up with something "original". Both man and music have been around for thousands of years, and yet, there are people who claim they've come up with "original music". We've all borrowed/(stolen?) musical "bits" from musicians that have influenced us...directly or indirectly, whether on purpose or by accident.
    Call me pessimistic, but I don't believe any musician or music is "original". But that's the point of music, is it?
     
  14. markbastable

    markbastable Tele-Meister

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    Would it be permissible to say that I never liked the Doors, and why? Or would I be accused of trolling?

    Oh, what the hell. I've thought about this a lot over the years, because people always find it surprising that I don't like the Doors. So this is not an unconsidered position.

    I'd say that the Doors were characterised by eighth-grade poetry, overweening self-importance, two modes of composition (trivial or rambling), self-indulgent lack of creative discipline, a mannered lead voice, and one-dimensional arrangements.

    As we're here, I'm not keen on Keith Moon either.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2013
  15. hwy145

    hwy145 Tele-Afflicted

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    When one places one of the greatest rock drummers in the history of music into the overrated category, this thread should have ended.
    Books could be (and have) about his technique. He wasn't just a clubber, his technique was such that if you didn't look past the smoke and mirrors, you'd miss the real magic.

    Anyhoo, the Doors? Drek!
     
  16. trev333

    trev333 Telefied Ad Free Member

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    you mean, Ringo?....:rolleyes:

    he's and she's.... what you talking about "willis".?..:lol:
     
  17. franchelB

    franchelB Friend of Leo's

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    While I don't consider myself a fan of the Doors, I do like most of their songs! But yeah, about Ringo? This thread should've been locked a long time ago!! LOL
     
  18. Drubbing

    Drubbing Friend of Leo's

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    Pretty sure he was referring to Bonzo, not Ringo.

    Ringo was the luckiest passenger in music history.
     
  19. trev333

    trev333 Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Bonzo?.. from the Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band... you mean?... ;)


    no no..I did type Ringo.. and I was being sarcastic.. in case you hadn't guessed...:)
     
  20. hwy145

    hwy145 Tele-Afflicted

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    Ha! No! I was referring to John Henry Bonham...

    His influence on legions of drummers in the past 40+ years cannot be overstated...
     
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