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were are my wood experts??

Discussion in 'Tele Home Depot' started by funkymann1, Aug 8, 2014.

  1. funkymann1

    funkymann1 Tele-Holic

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    I need wood experts….I have been making saw dust for 2 years now& I bought 2 basswood 1 piece blanks on eBay about 10 months ago…I used one when I first bought it & this happened…the post tilted & moved the wood…although the same template was used on alder & ash & it didn’t happen I blamed myself thinking maybe the post was drilled too close….after that I bought a basswood blank online at Kiem lumber & used the same bridge with no issues….GREAT RIGHT?...I used the second blank from the purchase 10 months ago & after 2 weeks of the guitar settling this crap happened again…..so my question is …is there a species out there that is kind of like basswood but softer?...I got to say…although it was 1 ¾ thick it smelled a lot like MDF when I was cutting it….
    I’m NOT LOOKING FOR A FIX…I just want to know if anyone can think of what this wood can be other than basswood?...there is no way for this too be normal considering all the 80s shred guitars had Floyds & were basswood….
    This really sucks…the guitar is to pretty to deal with a dowel & refin…I’d rather start fresh & make another….only thing is im out of this yellow urethane & threw the can away…now I gotta bring the headstock or body in & get a color match,….

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  2. guitarbuilder

    guitarbuilder Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I've had that happen to me too on Floyd installations. There isn't enough dense wood in front of the post to support the tension of all the strings. I'm not sure if using the old style Floyd screws instead of inserts would fix it, but I think that the only way to avoid it is to put the bridge humbucker more forward. The last body I did that it happened to was poplar

    Les Paul juniors were notorious for tilted inserts and screws too.

    I wonder if your drill bit was just one size too small and the wood cracked when you tapped in the insert.... It wouldn't take much to do that with basswood.
     
  3. Ripthorn

    Ripthorn Friend of Leo's

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    Basswood is incredibly soft. If you look at hardwoods, it is harder than balsa, but I can easily dent it without even trying. That is why I built one body of it and never again and why it is so popular with carvers. The softest I will go is poplar. I suppose Pauwalonia could be softer, but I have never used it. More than likely the bit was ever so slightly too small like guitarbuilder said. If you pull the stud, you can reset the piece, and put in some super glue to help strengthen the area.
     
  4. guitarbuilder

    guitarbuilder Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Yep, Ideally the hole should be a tad small to allow the splines of the insert to bite into the wood, but I think in this case it tends to break the wood unless there is sufficient wood in front of it, or dense enough to absorb the compression.
     
  5. teletimetx

    teletimetx Doctor of Teleocity

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    From what I can find out, basswood doesn't seem like a good choice for a high-tension application like a Floyd. Yes, it's easy to work with, but according to most sources, doesn't have good nail or screw holding capabilities. I don't claim to be a wood expert, but I worked with wood as a framing carpenter and I have an interest in wood stuff. There is always a bit of range between samples of wood characteristics - not every piece of the same species is exactly alike, but measurements can provide useful trends.

    One comparison to make is the ratio of a wood's hardness to average dried weight - sort of a comparison of bang for the buck, so to speak. Here's some data. This is not to suggest that a ratio is the only story; the contrast in hardness between growth rings and heartwood probably provides a better indicator of holding capability.

    Ratio of Janka Hardness to Average Dried Weight
    http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/basswood/

    wood/ADW #'s per cuft/janka hardness/Hardness to wt ratio
    Brazilian Rosewood 52/ 2790/ 53.65
    White Ash 42/ 1320/ 31.43
    Koa 38/ 1170/ 30.79
    African Mahogany 40/ 1070/ 26.75
    Honduran Mahogany 41/ 900/ 21.95
    Longleaf Pine 41/ 870/ 21.22
    Red Alder 28/ 590/ 21.07
    Yellow Poplar 29/ 540/ 18.62
    Redwood 26/ 450/ 17.31
    Basswood (linden) 26/ 410/ 15.77
    Sugar Pine 25/ 380/ 15.20
    Workability of Basswood(according to the Wood Database):
    Easy to work, being very soft and light. Perhaps one of the most suitable wood species for hand carving . Basswood also glues and finishes well, but has poor steam bending and nail holding characteristics. (emphasis added)
    Janka Hardness
    The actual number listed in the wood profile is the amount of pounds-force (lbf) or newtons (N) required to imbed a .444″ (11.28 mm) diameter steel ball into the wood to half the ball’s diameter. This number is given for wood that has been dried to a 12% moisture content, unless otherwise noted. This number is incredibly useful in directly determining how well a wood will withstand dents, dings, and wear—as well as indirectly predicting the difficulty in nailing, screwing, sanding, or sawing a given wood species.
    Hope this helps; couldn't get the table to set up legibly, but it's just a relative comparison for illustration.
    ...and my unexpert conclusion: I'd go with alder or ash.
     
  6. R. Stratenstein

    R. Stratenstein Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I've always though MDF smells moldy when you cut it. Maybe your basswood blank was moldy, and weakened from the mold? Long-shot speculation, and from the other responses above, sounds like it may have been the drill bit size, and the nature of basswood.
     
  7. funkymann1

    funkymann1 Tele-Holic

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    It was not the drill bit size...i drill with a 25/64 bit like you are supposed to for a 10mm hole...i always drill AFTER the finish process so its easier to line up the pup pole peices & neck & there is no paint in the way......ive done it a dozen times...its only happend twice with these 2 blanks...also, the stud anchor slipped right in with a VERY slight tap....this is the way its supposd to be done...like I said above most 80s floyd guitars were built with basswood...something was very fishy with this batch!
    which is WHY I ASKED ABOVE...does anyone know of a similar wood that maybe i got sold & the jerks sold it as basswood....
     
  8. Ripthorn

    Ripthorn Friend of Leo's

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    Woods vary from piece to piece. Have you verified that your stud to pickup spacing is not smaller than normal? Sometimes crap like this just happens with wood. It is most likely that you are not going to find someone to pin this on other than mother nature and Murphey.
     
  9. jpbturbo

    jpbturbo Tele-Afflicted

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    I would route out the entire bridge area and inset a block of maple or something nice and solid.
    Then paint a muscle car style stripe down the middle to cover it up.

    Or make a new body out of better wood.
     
  10. Wheelie

    Wheelie Tele-Meister

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    You're in Florida, so I would guess Ochoo aka Possumwood, Assacu, Monkey-No-Climb(I didn't make that up). Scientific name Hura crepitans L.

    Real soft stuff and the color and grain is similar enough to Basswood that the mistake could be made.
     
  11. twick

    twick Tele-Meister

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    I've used that same trem on basswood bodies, I've always worried about that happening. Last time I left more meat in the post area, but it still seamed like a high stress area.

    Nice looking guitar though, certainly worth fixing!


    Sent from my iPhone using TDPRI
     
  12. Elias Graves

    Elias Graves Friend of Leo's

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    +1
     
  13. Jack S

    Jack S Friend of Leo's

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    Basswood is soft, but like all woods the density is partially determined by the environment. If it grows under very long cold winters where the growth rings are densely packed, it tends to have greater strength and durability. I have seen very soft basswood, but I have also bought some that came from Iowa that was much stronger and denser. You cannot easily dent it with a fingernail.
     
  14. Ragtime Dan

    Ragtime Dan Tele-Holic Ad Free Member

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    Beautiful color scheme, worth fixing, keep it simple.
     
  15. guitarbuilder

    guitarbuilder Telefied Ad Free Member

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    10 gazillion guitar bodies sporting necks with pointy pegheads and locking nuts were built with floyds installed during the 1980's and 1990's. :)
     
  16. funkymann1

    funkymann1 Tele-Holic

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    just looked up the paypal statement from oct 2013...the ebay sellers name is mekilburn2012
    stay away from their basswood....JUNK!
     
  17. Jfellows

    Jfellows Tele-Afflicted

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    This here is most likely the case. The swamp ash we're all so fond of isn't really a different species, it's just the environment. Warmer wetter climates will result in faster growth which results in less dense wood. Good if you are looking for lighter weight, but lighter wood is generally weaker. The fact that it happened on those two bodies, which could likely have been from the same batch of wood and not on the other ones is not surprising as they probably came from different batches of wood. That's not to say there's anything "wrong" with the ones you got. A different bridge set up and it might have worked just fine.

    Basswood is incredibly soft, which is why it is used so frequently for carvers. I've used it without issue, but when using something that soft, I try to minimize the opportunity for disaster by using a setup that doesn't overly stress any specific spot - for example going string-through vs top loader. Basswood and Western Red Cedar which is also very lightweight are the only ones I'm overly careful with.

    I know how you feel - it's so dang frustrating when something like this happens! Hope you are able to fix it one way or another.
     
  18. Glen Smith

    Glen Smith RIP

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    In boat building when dealing with fasteners in a soft wood I always use a technique called "drill-fill-drill". Basically you drill an oversized hole a bit deeper than necessary for the fastener. Then you fill the hole with thickened epoxy. Once the epoxy has set you then drill the hole size required for the fastener in the center of the epoxy and insert the fastener. Never had a problem.
     
  19. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I doubt the seller slipped you counterfeit basswood.
    In several decades of obsessive compulsive woodworking I've found it to be very difficult to find two identical pieces of wood, even two ends of the same board can have significantly different hardness and density. (and color and grain)

    Is your love of basswood purely the pound you save over a nice light piece of swamp ash or alder?
    Or price also figures?
    Or you really like the softer tone?

    I always assumed basswood was used because it was cheap, light, and very easy to work for mass production.
     
  20. telecast-away

    telecast-away TDPRI Member

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    A little bit of the track maybe, but master builder John Suhr once said that his holy grale of sound probably would be basswood with a maple top. So the idea of getting better grip by inserting a maple block as mentioned earlier in the tread or maybe a maple top will be a positive action in any ways :) Don't know how these builders get that rock solid grip in the basswood, but I would ask one of those builders with experience. Can't image why they wouldn't give you a decent answer or some good advice.
     
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