Well, Crap: Gibson lays off staff at Nashville Custom Shop

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Bruxist, Feb 28, 2018.

  1. kelnet

    kelnet Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Because they're not getting enough well-paying gigs. Cars are more expensive? The cost of owning a home is higher? The average phone bill is higher? There are too many variables affecting disposable income to give you a definitive answer.

    You also need to define "working musician." Do you mean a musician who is playing pubs every weekend? Someone who plays every night in a resort? Actual recording artists? Session guys? Sidemen?

    I was a "working musician" in a Top-40 duo in the early '80s, and I averaged about $450 a week when we had steady bookings. I talked to a guy recently who plays in a duo, and he earns about the same amount per weekly gig that I did 37 years ago. It's not the cost of the guitar that's the issue. The problem is that those kind of low-level gigs just don't pay well enough.
     
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  2. soulgeezer

    soulgeezer Poster Extraordinaire

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  3. kelnet

    kelnet Telefied Ad Free Member

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    According to one website I found, a Fender Esquire listed for about $140 in 1950. Using the Average Indexed Monthly Earnings chart for that year, it works out to $100 hours of work. In 2016, 100 hours of work earned about $2400, which gets you a very nice Telecaster. There's no way, though, that the average pub musician earns $48000 a year.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
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  4. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I think it's understandable that the differences are confusing.

    AFAIK if you own "stock" in a private company, you are likely a part of that company in some way, in terms of how the agreement was arrived at for you to buy in.
    You cannot sell your share high in the morning and buy it back low in the afternoon.
    I cannot buy $100 worth of your company on my smartphone.
    The value of a shareholders stake is not going up and down all day long.

    Basically, if a company is not publicly traded, nobody outside of the company can make money off the company's shares via stock market speculation.

    Stock market trading essentially takes money out of the economy without putting anything in, as compared to private investment where the stakeholder actually invests in the company's success, rather than capitalizing on companies collective perceived instability.

    Stockholders who actively (publicly) trade all their investments have no real investment in a given company's long term success.

    I'm sure some of this is actually and/ or arguably wrong, but there are lots of fuzzy facts in corporate finance AFAIK.

    Unless one has a degree in such stuff and lives in that world.
     
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  5. kelnet

    kelnet Telefied Ad Free Member

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  6. supersoldier71

    supersoldier71 Tele-Holic

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    Economics is voodoo.

    But seriously, the widespread and ubiquitous availability of essentially free music has driven down the price of music, which has exerted significant downward pressure on the earning potential of musicians, particularly those who exist in the center of the earnings bell curve. The outliers on the positive tail seem to be making lots of money, but everyone else...meh.

    The income generating paradigm has shifted for working musicians, and I don't think Gibson or any other manufacturer is responsible for it, nor necessarily beholden to adjusting for it, in light of the realities of business management.
     
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  7. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I suspect that there are more monthly bills now than then, along with more devices required by those who live at an equivalent income level.
    A family of four might require 6-8 computers of various sizes, regularly purchased to keep up with tech, along with at least 2-3 service providers to connect these devices to TV, internet and phone systems.
    Even central air was not a basic requirement back then.
    Now you might get arrested for leaving your kids in a 100 degree home, or letting them walk to school. (the walk to school arrest has happened)

    Then there is the cost of car insurance, health insurance, homeowners insurance, and legal representation. Either huge price increase or not required back then.
    Since it got popular to sue neighbors, doctors, drug companies and employers, costs of living grew more numerous.

    I'm sure there are other non equivalent cost additions and increases since the '50s.
     
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  8. TeleAnthony

    TeleAnthony Tele-Meister

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    A privately held company has shares that are 'privately held' by the owners. The privately held company sells its shares privately.
     
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  9. warrent

    warrent Friend of Leo's

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    GM, Ford, Honda all of them could convert to only selling electric cars they too would get a subsidy on every car they sold. As it stands cars like chevy volt and nissan leaf get the same subsidies as tesla.

    In reality all large companies get some sort of subsidy from the government, wether its grants for training, property tax waivers, the list is endless. Tesla is no different. Even Gibson received tax abatements for the Memphis site.
     
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  10. luckett

    luckett Banned

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    You don't have to have any kind of operational involvement to buy shares in a private company. This is how the whole venture capital world works. Shares of private companies can be bought and sold at will as long as the offering complies with the SECs requirements for private placements.
     
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  11. warrent

    warrent Friend of Leo's

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    Free music has always existed its called radio. I think downloading and streaming have had an effect on record sales. I think that gaming has had a greater effect on music sales than pirates do. When I was a kid there wasn't much to spend money on that's not so true today.
    As far as working as a gigging musician the greater impact in most cities is land value. Buildings are more valuable as condos than nightclubs. In Toronto we keep losing midsize performance spaces to condos and neighborhood gentrification. There are a lot less places to play than there were 20 or 30 years ago. As an example our Hard Rock Cafe was turned into a Pharmacy.
     
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  12. ac15

    ac15 Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    I’m no Trekkie, but I still think the new V design looks cool.

    Oddly, it reminds me a little bit of a John Backlund design.
     
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  13. soulgeezer

    soulgeezer Poster Extraordinaire

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    I guess your radio doesn't have commercials on it, eh?
     
  14. warrent

    warrent Friend of Leo's

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    Well to be honest I usually listen to CBC radio 2 up here in Canada and it doesn't have commercials.
     
  15. kelnet

    kelnet Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Oh come on. You know what he means. :) When I turn on the car radio, I don't need to pay a monthly subscription fee to listen to local radio stations.
     
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  16. soulgeezer

    soulgeezer Poster Extraordinaire

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    You drive an older car, don't you? A lot of the new ones come with subscription-based satellite radios. But, no commercials!

    I hate modern technology. I really, really do.
     
  17. kelnet

    kelnet Telefied Ad Free Member

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    We have a brand new Mazda. I just choose not to subscribe to the satellite radio. I prefer the free local stations. There is no monetary cost to listening to commercials. Usually, I just change the station. There's enough selection here that I can usually avoid the commercials.

    Also, the modern technology allows me to plug in a USB drive that contains every music file I've downloaded over the last 19 years, all of it for free.
     
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  18. supersoldier71

    supersoldier71 Tele-Holic

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    No doubt, snarkiness notwithstanding, but now, I get exactly the music I want, wherever I want, and I am I'm not even talking about pirating music. For the price of one CD back in the day, I get the Amazon catalog. But the ubiquity of exactly the music you want to hear, every time, has had an effect on the willingness of consumers to deal with the "logistics" of seeing live music at anything but a dedicated venue, which is where one finds the musicians making money in the game.

    The cost of urban real estate is a factor, no doubt, but I'd also argue that the paradigm shift in music consumerism has had a similar if not equal impact on the downward movement of musician pay.
     
  19. soulgeezer

    soulgeezer Poster Extraordinaire

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    Good point and very well made!
     
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  20. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    So my corporation could be privately owned but the co-owners could be venture capital companies and I would have no info on who the venture capital investor owners of my business are, beyond the name of the venture capital company they invested through?

    But then, if the investors who used the venture capital company to invest in my private corporation pull their money out of the venture capital company, does that venture capital company then pull money out of my corporation?

    Or is the venture capital company an investor with interest in my corporations long term success?
    Or can that venture capital company invest in my corporation in the morning and sell their share in the afternoon for a profit?
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
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