Weber vs Mojotone 5F2-A Kit

[Paul-T]

I’d LOVE a bill of materials!

I was thinking Boothill’s chassis kit and these heybor transformers, Then source the cab and speaker from Mojo. That’s only 3 orders, and Mojo ships cabs for free. Thoughts?

TWEED CHAMP/PRINCETON TRANSFORMER SET, HEYBOER USA, 5F1, 5F2A

BACK IN STOCK ! USA made, Heyboer transformer set. Power and Output transformer for use with Tweed Champ or Tweed Princeton using a single 6V6 type power tube, single rectifier tube, and single preamp tube (9 pin or octal)

www.tubeaudiosupply.com

I think you would be absolutely fine with this if Boothill have in stock. They do a great job in terms of capacitor and resistor selection (although I'm pretty sure you'd be fine with cheapo resistors too).

I would however definitely endorse the view that it's worth finding a Power transformer with a 275V tap. That's what I did for my 5f2a, following advice here. The Hammond 290CAX I think would be the one, and it's less expensive than many others. It's worht paying $5-10 more for an OT with both 4 ohm and 8 ohm taps as opposed to 4 ohm only, it's way more flexible.

Hammond 290CAX Power Transformer

Power transformer, replacement for Fender guitar amp, 290 series Designed for drop in replacement of original units. Physically, parts were designed to look similar to original factory units (where possible). Material used & design specs. were kept as close as possible to the original part to

tubedepot.com

Hammond 1760C Output Transformer

Output transformer, guitar amp, 5,000/8,000 ohm pri., 3.2, 8, 16 ohm sec., 5W Designed for drop in replacement of original units. Physically, parts were designed to look similar to original factory units (where possible). Material used & design specs. were kept as close as possible to the original

tubedepot.com

I think if you want an 8 inch speaker that's what you should get. Alnico Weber signature 8 are a ridiculous bargain, likewise the CV8. I like Jensen alnicos but they're much pricier in the US vs Weber. Jupiter also have a new lower wattage 8 inch alnico on offer,

8SA - 8" 25W Vintage American Small Alnico Guitar Speaker

Add Speaker Break-in Orders have a lead time of approximately one week to ship. Jupiter 8SA is an 8" seamed cone speaker with a Small Alnico Magnet, an upgrade replacement for Jensen P8R. The 8SA provides excellent tone and alnico chime in the Fender Champ and Gibson GA-5. Dimensions...

jupiter-speakers.com

 

[Peegoo]

A good thing to have on hand when building is a current limiter. You use this when first powering up your build; if anything is miswired, the current limiter can save your circuit, power transformer, etc., from going up in smoke.

You can easily make your own dim bulb current limiter with a few inexpensive parts. Most examples you see online for a DIY limiter use a duplex receptacle and a switch. I came up with a simpler method that requires only three items: a short three wire (grounded) extension cord, a lamp socket, and a 75 or 100-watt bulb. You can mount the socket on a small box if you like. The device is basically a short extension cord with a light bulb in series.

Here's a detailed breakdown:

 

[Jeru]

1) First build — don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Learn stuff. Enjoy the ride.

2) Lots of really good ‘first build’ advice here. Some more advanced posts = perhaps tuck it away for the next one.

3) Bottom line over the course of two pages of posts — whatever you choose will be THE RIGHT CHOICE for you for your first one. Relax and enjoy.

4) Our holy grail vintage Fender amps were (I am told) made with parts that could be sourced cheaply in bulk — many things we obsess over like ‘noise floor’ due to this capacitor or that one was likely not a primary concern. Kind of like ~we didn’t know how bad our tone sucked until the Internet told us just exactly how bad.

5) For whatever it’s worth, my first amp build was a Weber 5f2a kit with speaker but without cab. Since then I have scratch-built a few amps and repurposed a few old tube amps, learning to source parts and developing preferences along the way.
(https://www.tubesandmore.com/)

I watched a ton of Uncle Doug’s videos on YouTube to learn everything from safety to how/why amp theory to practical design tips. These days, Rob Robinette’s site is an absolute wealth of information.

Be safe / good luck / have fun / we’re here if and when you need us.

J

 

[jman72]

IF I decided to “build my own kit” where would I source all the components? I know I can get the cassis, cabinet, and speaker from Mojotone, but where would I get the resistors, capacitors, transformers, jacks, plugs, tube sockets, etc.?

I've used Amplified Parts to get all of my components on a couple of amp builds. You can get high quality parts exactly like you want for about the same price as the cheap components you might get in some kits.

I've also built a Boothill 5f1 and 5e3 kit. Great kits and a nice guy, too.

 

[sds1]

I don't really like Weber as a company.

I really like Mojotone as a company.

The quality of some parts that Weber provides is beneath a reasonable threshold IMO.

 

[King Fan]

I don't really like Weber as a company.

I really like Mojotone as a company.

The quality of some parts that Weber provides is beneath a reasonable threshold IMO.

I totally agree, except not quite.

I really like Weber speakers; their cab and kit shops are separate, and it shows sometimes. I really like Mojo too, but I wish they'd rationalize their PT voltages and (stretch goal) modernize a few details on their drawings.

 

[Lowspeid]

A good thing to have on hand when building is a current limiter. You use this when first powering up your build; if anything is miswired, the current limiter can save your circuit, power transformer, etc., from going up in smoke.

You can easily make your own dim bulb current limiter with a few inexpensive parts. Most examples you see online for a DIY limiter use a duplex receptacle and a switch. I came up with a simpler method that requires only three items: a short three wire (grounded) extension cord, a lamp socket, and a 75 or 100-watt bulb. You can mount the socket on a small box if you like. The device is basically a short extension cord with a light bulb in series.

Here's a detailed breakdown:

I’ll be building one of these, for sure!

 

[Lowspeid]

1) First build — don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Learn stuff. Enjoy the ride.

2) Lots of really good ‘first build’ advice here. Some more advanced posts = perhaps tuck it away for the next one.

3) Bottom line over the course of two pages of posts — whatever you choose will be THE RIGHT CHOICE for you for your first one. Relax and enjoy.

4) our holy grail vintage Fender amps were (I am told) made with parts that could be sourced cheaply in bulk — things we obsess over like ‘noise floor’ due to this capacitor or that one was likely not a primary concern. Kind of like ~we didn’t know how bad our tone sucked until the Internet told us just exactly how bad.

5) For whatever it’s worth, my first amp build was a Weber 5f2a kit with speaker but without cab. Since then I have scratch-built a few amps and repurposed a few old tube amps, learning to source parts and developing preferences along the way.
(https://www.tubesandmore.com/)

I watched a ton of Uncle Doug’s videos on YouTube to learn everything from safety to how/why amp theory to practical design tips. These days, Rob Robinette’s site is an absolute wealth of information.

Be safe / good luck / have fun / we’re here if and when you need us.

J

Thank you! I appreciate the advice!

 

[Lowspeid]

I think you would be absolutely fine with this if Boothill have in stock. They do a great job in terms of capacitor and resistor selection (although I'm pretty sure you'd be fine with cheapo resistors too).

I would however definitely endorse the view that it's worth finding a Power transformer with a 275V tap. That's what I did for my 5f2a, following advice here. The Hammond 290CAX I think would be the one, and it's less expensive than many others. It's worht paying $5-10 more for an OT with both 4 ohm and 8 ohm taps as opposed to 4 ohm only, it's way more flexible.

Hammond 290CAX Power Transformer

Power transformer, replacement for Fender guitar amp, 290 series Designed for drop in replacement of original units. Physically, parts were designed to look similar to original factory units (where possible). Material used & design specs. were kept as close as possible to the original part to

tubedepot.com

Hammond 1760C Output Transformer

Output transformer, guitar amp, 5,000/8,000 ohm pri., 3.2, 8, 16 ohm sec., 5W Designed for drop in replacement of original units. Physically, parts were designed to look similar to original factory units (where possible). Material used & design specs. were kept as close as possible to the original

tubedepot.com

I think if you want an 8 inch speaker that's what you should get. Alnico Weber signature 8 are a ridiculous bargain, likewise the CV8. I like Jensen alnicos but they're much pricier in the US vs Weber. Jupiter also have a new lower wattage 8 inch alnico on offer,

8SA - 8" 25W Vintage American Small Alnico Guitar Speaker

Add Speaker Break-in Orders have a lead time of approximately one week to ship. Jupiter 8SA is an 8" seamed cone speaker with a Small Alnico Magnet, an upgrade replacement for Jensen P8R. The 8SA provides excellent tone and alnico chime in the Fender Champ and Gibson GA-5. Dimensions...

jupiter-speakers.com

Thank you! I was looking at those transformers last night.

I’ve had a couple Jupiter speakers, and while they look great, I’ve always liked the sound of Jensen reissues a lot more (hence having them in three of my four amps).

 

[schmee]

I'd say Weber for the speaker,but not so sure about their trannies. Better now though I've heard.
Those prices are just insane for a little 5F2.
Buy the parts you want separately. Chassis are cheap.
or
You can buy a new one ready to play here for $429: https://reverb.com/item/56930635-fo...rq-OvTxZh7Fh4CxT1UPbgTB4uHomCPRMaAk6rEALw_wcB (Take it apart and put it back together! )

You can buy one on Ebay for less than that. Take out any components you dont like and redo it.

 

[archetype]

My intention with this amp build is pretty simple: have a good time building an amp that I enjoy playing when it’s completed. I know it won’t sound like the ‘57 I played, but I’m sure if I do things right it’ll sound great all the same. I’m not trying to go cheap, but I don’t have an unlimited cash to throw at it. I looked up Boothill, and the website shows a 5f2a kit, but I’m not sure if he’s still offering them.

Would a Weber kit, less resistors and caps, tubes, and transformers be a good compromise?

Ask Dave at Boothill. He's responsive.

 

[Wyatt]

Mojotone price is higher but so is their part quality. Ted Weber's philosophy was that his customers would be experienced builders, with their own preferences, and he would offer as cheap a kit as he could source, and expect the pros to substitute as desired. But all the parts are there, the design is tested, and (built correctly) the amp will work fine with all the stock Weber parts.

Components – Mojotone kits are mostly known, well regarded, over-the-counter parts, most of which is what people would buy if sourcing their own. Many parts are brand name (and the Mojotone brand is good quality too). Weber's are mostly source directly from Chinese suppliers

Transformers - Weber's kits are not design to be exact clones. To streamline supply chains, they sometimes use a "one size fits many" approach to parts (Ceriatone does similarly), reusing the same transformer for many amp models. While the transformers have multiple taps to accommodate different scenarios, sometimes they just had to compromise. This also means that some Weber chassis don't fit aftermarket transformers. Almost all Mojotone transformers are Heyboer, Heyboer is a OEM manufacturer that doesn't sell direct to consumer, so they use Mojotone as a retail partner

Chassis - Weber gave up on chrome plating and moved to stainless steel chassis for Tweed amps, which are hard to modify, drill, or solder to. Mojotone still uses chrome-plated steel, just like Fender, plating varies in quality but the faceplate always looks good

Cabinets - Both the Mojotone shop and whomever suppliers Weber do excellent work. For any lurkers out there, note that Weber's '60s chassis used a different faceplate angle than Fender and their cabinets are made to match. But, with Tweed, this isn't an issue

 

[JuneauMike]

Chassis - Weber gave up on chrome plating and moved to stainless steel chassis for Tweed amps, which are hard to modify, drill, or solder to. Mojotone still uses chrome-plated steel, just like Fender, plating varies in quality but the faceplate always looks good

I just bought a chrome chassis from Weber. Like, just last week.

 

[Wyatt]

I just bought a chrome chassis from Weber. Like, just last week.

Which one?

All the "American" chassis (5F1, 5F2a, 5E3, 5E7, 6A20, 6A40, etc.) have been "High quality 16ga polished stainless steel" (see under Technical Details) since before Ted Sr. passed in '09. He got fed up at multiple suppliers and debated between powder coating or SS before settling on the latter.

 

[JuneauMike]

Which one?

All the "American" chassis (5F1, 5F2a, 5E3, 5E7, 6A20, 6A40, etc.) have been "High quality 16ga polished stainless steel" (see under Technical Details) since before Ted Sr. passed in '09. He got fed up at multiple suppliers and debated between powder coating or SS before settling on the latter.

Uh, 5f2a.

 

[Paul-T]

I sourced my bits from Boothill, made my own cab, got a s'h Jensen and bought this chassis for my 5f2a, it was great, especially for $38 - I've been told this is the same one that some US suppliers sell. Later I rewired a little using solid core cloth covered wire.

Maybe someone's posted this already, but here's Hoffman's parts list.

If you email 'Carlo' to request postage they send it cheaper than the automatic basket price.

 

[King Fan]

I love the way this is turning into "it takes a village"... and a lot of smart village elders are turning up with good offerings. It's a testament to TDPRI, but maybe also to the popularity of the 5F2a.

One issue I ran into when I did a 5F2a as my first amp was a proper layout. I had Fender's 5F2a layout and an old kit 5F1 drawing, no instructions. I got some smart help here and offline, and it worked, but there were challenges.

Nowadays you can use Rob's 5F1, which is nice, but there are still tricky differences. In the hope to help new builders *build on the standard board*, I played with a layout based on Rob's 5F1. FWIW here's a version with a modern, easy 'single ground bus.' No pressure to use this, far from it, but let me know if you need a higher-res version.

Even on this small simple amp, there'll be stuff that'll vary. If your PT lacks a 6.3V center tap, you'll want to rig an 'artificial CT' -- which can be hung from various places on the heater string. My 'bleed' resistor is totally optional. The 'unified bus' can be made with insulated wire, heavy bare wire, or a double strand of twisted bare wire. The devil is in the details; whatever road you take, feel free to stop and ask directions.

One thing Fender didn't publish is a schematic *with voltages.* Luckily, their late-tweed 6G10 'Harvard' (very few ever made) was actually a 5F2a in all but name, and has voltages:

 

[mrfitz98]

IF I decided to “build my own kit” where would I source all the components? I know I can get the cassis, cabinet, and speaker from Mojotone, but where would I get the resistors, capacitors, transformers, jacks, plugs, tube sockets, etc.?

Hoffman

Links to the complete parts list minus chassis and transformers. 1 click to add the all to your cart. I like Antique Electronics for transformers.

 

[leewongfei]

All kits have their short comings, its really up to the builder to build a quality amp with those parts. For example, I have built 4 different 5e3's over the years. Two from Mojotone, one Boothill, and one that I put together using parts from old projects with a Hoffman board. The two from Mojotone sounded pretty good. The Boothill kit was decent but some of the parts felt very "budget" in quality (No offense to Dave). The 5e3 I built using recycled parts and metal film resistors is amazing. Its honestly one of the best 5e3's ive played through. Kits are great, but by building one by sourcing your own parts, you can build exactly what your looking for, the exact way YOU want to build it. Whatever kit you go with, make sure you buy extra wire as some kits dont come with nearly enough, like Mojotone.. Mojotone never gives you enough..

**Edited for grammar

 

[Andymoon]

I made a small cabinet for an 8” speaker for my first build. I now wish I would have put it in a 5e3 sized cab for a 12” speaker as it sounds so much better through a larger external cabinet. I would advise anyone to consider at least a 10” speaker and larger cabinet.