We play it our own way...

[Wally]

I swear that's how the song "Messy" by Lola Young was created. She was singing "Dreams" by Fleetwood Mac and was maybe jamming and decided to change the lyrics and a new song was born. It's almost the same song even down to some of the guitar licks.

I have always wanted to have a band named ‘Derrick and The Derivatives’. Maybe ‘Jerry and the Cops’????
Originality is a tough nut to crack. One way to do it is to understand how others’ music is done….and then avoid the subconcious copying thereof. Of course, conscious theft of another’s music has enriched some.

 

[WireLine]

Just my experience, but when joining an already long established band, you do things their way, even if they are different than what one has done forever or what one had independently learned. It's their band.

Best way to learn and fit in is (IMO) trial by fire, IE in timed rehearsals or better yet gigs. Mistakes will be made, as they always are, but learning how they do things soon becomes how WE do things. I stepped into my current gig that way, and had to learn on the fly how the other members had been doing songs for well over a decade, some of which are pretty far off the mark of 'like the original,' some of which I may not like or agree with arrangements, tempos, etc....

But it's not my band. On the originals we do that I wrote, I have the ultimate say so, otherwise I play the parts within the given parameters given by the band's 18 years of prior existence.

There's always the choice of moving along if that ever becomes a problem for me

 

[cousinpaul]

Ask to see the song list and circle the ones you know. You probably know more than you think and that would at least narrow it down. Also, whatever genre they play, I bet they only cover the easy ones. You could probably treat it like a jam. I agree that it's a tough call but on the other hand, do you want to be the guy who canned out with short notice? There might better opportunities down the line.

 

[hawk620]

I can understand the "we play it our way" as it relates to the arrangement but not using a wholly different chord progression and expecting a new member to know that.

I guess in some cases I could probably hear the substitute chords being used and adapt quickly enough but if not it means having to stop a rehearsal to get them down.

I can't see how that makes much sense.

 

[chillybilly]

I am learning 40 songs for a band/gig that I have never played before on bass and had 4 weeks to do it. And the new drummer as of Monday, has 2 weeks to learn the material.
Everything was going fine until I went to rehearsal only to discover that they play many of the songs "their own way."
So many of the arrangements I've spent hours charting and learning are in need of a serious edit. That's a lot of time wasted.
What makes it worse, is that the group has no recordings of the way they play it, and we have a gig at a very nice, very popular place coming up in 2 weeks. They act as if I should already know their version and grudgingly want to work out the arrangements at rehearsal to play it their way. What a waste of time! If they had a recording I, and the drummer, would just show up prepared and there would be no stress.
I find this very challenging, stupid, wasteful, counter-productive, amateur, and lazy on their part. They don't even have some of the chord progressions right and bark that they've been doing it this way for 20 years. That doesn't make it right! Then we have to debate whether the chords and melodies are right instead of just listening to the original recording where ALL THE ANSWERS are! Oh no. Can't do that.
How do you get a potentially good band to see the light and stop wasting time? It's so frustrating to show up after working really hard on the material only to be told that I'm doing it wrong. They forgot to tell me they do it their own way.

If a band is going to pull this kind of crap, they need to provide either a recording or a chart showing their stupid arrangement which is always worse than the original.
And if they're tired of playing the material as recorded, then maybe they need to be playing a different type of music.

In my 50 years playing experience, "we play it our own way" means, "we're too lazy to learn it the right way first and just settle for whatever gets us through the next few bars."

Losers.

You have described/experienced one of my peeve-iest peeves.

I've been in many of the 'Hey let's just make it our own' scenarios and it has always been a fig leaf for not knowing the material especially things like drum licks/fills or vocal harmonies in a song that relies on these or other elements.

'Make it our own' as in devise a novel cover should be as obvious as the versions of Ever Fallen In Love? by Buzzcocks and Fine Young Cannibals. 'Let's ignore that minor chord in the bridge' is hardly the same thing.

I'll also allow for things like reggae bands doing versions of pop songs, for example. But musicians and audience alike are all clued into the approach.

The band's attitude is a combination of entitlement, presumption, laziness, groupthink and even more juvenile things like being afraid to admit error or inadequacy.

Many of us have had 4 days (or less) to learn 40 songs but a month is still a rather accelerated schedule which is a complicating factor.

'Learn the record' is a time-saver for all concerned. Best-case scenario you play it note-for-note. Worst-case scenario means everyone is clear on 90% of the track even if intros, outros are changed, if there's some dramatic breakdown/tempo change that's been added etc. But that's miles away from omitting chord changes, verses etc.

As you say if they have some special arrangements they want to share because they're written down that's not great but it's reasonable. 'Read my mind' is not.

 

[cousinpaul]

Intros and endings.

 

[Skyhook]

I usually give bands a one-gig benefit of the doubt.

Thanks to people with this mindset I've been able to play gigs from time to time.
Thanks to all who roll this way!

 

[Telenator]

The only advantage was when some joker would want to do a song I'd hate and I'd just drag my feet until people forgot about it.... you can generally bet that someone's great idea isn't so great that they'll write it up and print it out and bring it (and put holes in it.)

Ba Ha Ha! said the little red hen!
Yup, that's a brilliant and effective plan.

 

[Telenator]

Ask to see the song list and circle the ones you know. You probably know more than you think and that would at least narrow it down. Also, whatever genre they play, I bet they only cover the easy ones. You could probably treat it like a jam. I agree that it's a tough call but on the other hand, do you want to be the guy who canned out with short notice? There might better opportunities down the line.

I'm plowing through the list. No problem there. It's all the curve balls on top of the short deadline that are making this tough. Well, and the fact that some of the parts they play are just wrong.
I'm going to give it one gig to see how it all washes out. They don't gig more than twice per month and at my age anyway, keeping the songs tight and on cue is going to be a considerable commitment under the best of circumstances.
I've been down this road a dozen times with other bands and it just amazes me how this is just one more way musicians shoot themselves in the foot making a difficult situation even more difficult.

 

[Dismalhead]

I guess it depends on the mission of the band, are you trying to make money making background/elevator music or are you trying to be a good live band? Two different things IMO, nothing wrong with either.

I can see doing it like the popular version if you were producing a product, like for a wedding band; or maybe a high-end tribute band. But on the other hand nothing bores me more than a note-for-note cover band; I can go home and listen to the CD. I want to see something different when I see a live band, I want to see YOUR input and creativity as a musician.

 

[Alaska Mike]

Again, I see it as disrespect.
You have your rhythm section as new replacements. You can have the best guitarist and singer and whatever else, but if the rhythm section is not synced with the arrangement, things are going to fall apart really quickly. If the arrangement changes (keys, tempos, order...) a few notes on how each is different from the standard recorded version can go a long way to keeping things together.

I have seen far too many bands with obvious fill-in musicians who play tentatively (quietly) because they just aren't sure of how things are going to go. Nobody plays well when they can't hear each other. A good conductor who is in constant communication with the band members for changes and isn't worried about their own instrument can help things greatly, but who has one of those anymore?

To me, if you aren't willing to at least provide Cliff Notes to the replacements and aren't doing predictable 12-bar, slow-tempo, white boy blues songs, you aren't respecting them or the audience.

 

[Kandinskyesque]

At the bits where it starts going awry a couple of Bootsy Collins slaps and then grab some high frets and it should all work out fine

 

[teletail]

In my 50 years playing experience, "we play it our own way" means, "we're too lazy to learn it the right way first and just settle for whatever gets us through the next few bars."

Losers.

I notice that people who do songs “their own way” almost never make the arrangements harder.

As to everyone complaining that the OP should just be able to jump in and follow along, why is the onus on him to follow them while they wander lost in the desert, rather than on them to play the original chords and arrangements unless they specify otherwise?

I would say though that “how close do you play to the original” should always be asked prior to an audition.

 

[2HBStrat]

I'm plowing through the list. No problem there. It's all the curve balls on top of the short deadline that are making this tough. Well, and the fact that some of the parts they play are just wrong.
I'm going to give it one gig to see how it all washes out. They don't gig more than twice per month and at my age anyway, keeping the songs tight and on cue is going to be a considerable commitment under the best of circumstances.
I've been down this road a dozen times with other bands and it just amazes me how this is just one more way musicians shoot themselves in the foot making a difficult situation even more difficult.

Those kind of musicians are either lazy or not good enough to learn songs like the record.

I guess it depends on the mission of the band, are you trying to make money making background/elevator music or are you trying to be a good live band? Two different things IMO, nothing wrong with either.

I can see doing it like the popular version if you were producing a product, like for a wedding band; or maybe a high-end tribute band. But on the other hand nothing bores me more than a note-for-note cover band; I can go home and listen to the CD. I want to see something different when I see a live band, I want to see YOUR input and creativity as a musician.

Maybe, but you're a musician. I would bet that most non-musicians, if they ever thought about it, would prefer hearing a song played like the record than some amateur band's version of "their way."

I notice that people who do songs “their own way” almost never make the arrangements harder.....

No, they leave parts out, don't play the correct chords or changes. Like on "Take it Easy" the last verse...every other time it goes to C but on the last verse it goes to Am...a minor thing but its the kind of thing, when done right and through a whole night of songs, takes you from a half-@$$ed band to a professional sounding band...a band that has spent time working things out.

 

[getbent]

I notice that people who do songs “their own way” almost never make the arrangements harder.

As to everyone complaining that the OP should just be able to jump in and follow along, why is the onus on him to follow them while they wander lost in the desert, rather than on them to play the original chords and arrangements unless they specify otherwise?

I would say though that “how close do you play to the original” should always be asked prior to an audition.

a great post and, as usual, you are totally right....

IF you shared expectations (as you said at the outset)

But, most times, you show up to (not really an audition) more like a lets see how we like each other....

And that is where their expectations, your expectations, the perceived desires of the crowd, our self images all that comes together either in harmony or dissarray.

I thought the goal (my perception) was 'i'm in a new town, I want to be part of the music scene and a good way to get going is to get a gig with a band with gigs.'

OP did that part. The part he didn't do is say, "I need for us to be tight and to work pretty close to the original recording and not wander too far."

That part wasn't shared with them... so, if they kind of blew that part off, it isn't rude, it wasn't requested. If I bring you some makers on ice and I don't also bring a glass of water when all you asked for was some makers on ice, I'm not rude, just didn't understand.

We can't make the argument that 'well, yeah, but everyone knows.' Clearly, a lot of bands DON'T know or care... so, the guys aren't rude in my book.

Hey, they have a band with gigs. They had the band first, someone in the band is the leader.... they get to say. You get to request something else, but it is an ask, not a tell.

Secret expectations are begging for disappointment.

 

[Telenator]

I guess it depends on the mission of the band, are you trying to make money making background/elevator music or are you trying to be a good live band? Two different things IMO, nothing wrong with either.

I can see doing it like the popular version if you were producing a product, like for a wedding band; or maybe a high-end tribute band. But on the other hand nothing bores me more than a note-for-note cover band; I can go home and listen to the CD. I want to see something different when I see a live band, I want to see YOUR input and creativity as a musician.

You're missing the point a bit.
As mentioned several times earlier, we're not doing a "note for note" tribute level thing. This is a rock band that has made the task of preparing for a gig all the more difficult by changing several of the arrangements of the songs and giving me 4 weeks, (new drummer gets 2 weeks) to learn the 40 tunes and be able to play them suitable for a paying gig.

I want to play the songs similar enough to the recordings so the recording can be used as the example of how it goes. So I can show up at rehearsal and play it with a group of people and it all fits together well.
I consider learning the bass lines well as a Master Class in playing bass, taught by some amazing players that are way better than I am. I'm not going to be arrogant enough to say, I'll just skip what this pro is playing and do it my own way without learning what the guy did in the first place. In all honesty, when someone skips the learning process, that comes across as being a little bit lazy, and it ALWAYS shows in their playing. There are very few people who "do it their own way" and actually make it sound good.
Most people who "do it their own way" think they're rebels who are going to give the audience a real treat by not boring them with a killer bass line. They're not. That's not what the dancing, non-musician audience wants to hear. Only your musician friends give a crap about that, but they all hang in a little group and talk about how they'd do it different, or better as they sip free club sodas and contribute nothing to venue. They got in for free too.

That said, this band is not trying to be anything they're not. They're only being unrealistic in expecting others to join in and get a great sound within a few weeks because they have never mastered the music to begin with. I only saying all of this out of frustration. A solution here is not necessary, and of course, won't work. It's simply a chronical of the weird ways of musicians who seem hellbent on making things more difficult than they have to be.

 

[Telenator]

a great post and, as usual, you are totally right....

IF you shared expectations (as you said at the outset)

But, most times, you show up to (not really an audition) more like a lets see how we like each other....

And that is where their expectations, your expectations, the perceived desires of the crowd, our self images all that comes together either in harmony or dissarray.

I thought the goal (my perception) was 'i'm in a new town, I want to be part of the music scene and a good way to get going is to get a gig with a band with gigs.'

OP did that part. The part he didn't do is say, "I need for us to be tight and to work pretty close to the original recording and not wander too far."

That part wasn't shared with them... so, if they kind of blew that part off, it isn't rude, it wasn't requested. If I bring you some makers on ice and I don't also bring a glass of water when all you asked for was some makers on ice, I'm not rude, just didn't understand.

We can't make the argument that 'well, yeah, but everyone knows.' Clearly, a lot of bands DON'T know or care... so, the guys aren't rude in my book.

Hey, they have a band with gigs. They had the band first, someone in the band is the leader.... they get to say. You get to request something else, but it is an ask, not a tell.

Secret expectations are begging for disappointment.

I did bring it up. That it's a lot of work to do in a short time and that changing the arrangements just makes it harder.
I have learned everything very well and now know 35 of the 40 tunes. The remaining 5 I'm going to request we skip for now. It's just too much work to learn it and maintain it between gigs. If that's OK with them I'm fine. If not, I'll move along. I had the first 30 tunes down in ten days. I hope they're willing to cut a little slack here. It just might be fun.

There's nothing to solve here. It's just a commentary on a situation that seems to come up way too often.

 

[staxman]

I swear that's how the song "Messy" by Lola Young was created. She was singing "Dreams" by Fleetwood Mac and was maybe jamming and decided to change the lyrics and a new song was born. It's almost the same song even down to some of the guitar licks.

This one’s for you!

 

[getbent]

I did bring it up. That it's a lot of work to do in a short time and that changing the arrangements just makes it harder.
I have learned everything very well and now know 35 of the 40 tunes. The remaining 5 I'm going to request we skip for now. It's just too much work to learn it and maintain it between gigs. If that's OK with them I'm fine. If not, I'll move along. I had the first 30 tunes down in ten days. I hope they're willing to cut a little slack here. It just might be fun.

There's nothing to solve here. It's just a commentary on a situation that seems to come up way too often.

never forget... we are all #teamtelenator do or don't do, we are on your side mang!

 

[DekeDog]

Thankfully, I don't have to play music in a band to make money. I prefer jamming with friends or playing alone. Making music is where it's at. Once you throw money into the equation, it starts getting sticky. For me, anyway.