Way Huge Red Llama-I don't get it

[Spaceboy]

Can't help you with setting suggestions as I don't have one of these pedals but it's possible that the amp and pedal just don't work well together.

I've got a Crowther Hot Cake that many people love but I just can't get it to work with any of my amps in a way that I find good to my ears. The only use I have for it is when I use it as a clean boost.

Actually the Hot Cake was supposedly designed with an AC30 in mind - Paul Crowther was the drummer in Split Enz and Neil Finn used AC30's so that was his test bed apparently.

Might be worth checking out........

The Hotcake was a staple for one of my favorite bands from the '90s. I bought the pedal and it did nothing for me. It was dark and without any real presence. It got the wooly tone I expected, but the bottom end was woofy and without that fuzz-like texture I associated with the pedal. I played it through ten or so amps between my own and a couple buddies, and not one sounded right. So I took it into a shop one day and plugged into an AC30. Within moments I found those tones I had been hearing for years, going through dozens of overdrives and fuzzes in the chase. I bought an AC30 soon after and now it's my primary rig. When people comment about this pedal and amp being a perfect match, they are not overstating. I couldn't get a sound I like from anything other Vox and oddly a JCM800 set to slight crunch. It needs a bright and loud amplifier to really shine.

If you end up trying an AC30, immediately do the bright cap mod on the top boost channe and use the Hotcake there. It's less stunning on the normal channel, and without the bright cap mod, the top boost game is thin and lifeless and doesn't give you a real impression of what the amp sounds like cranked.

 

[Jakeboy]

I have a bunch of amps and really only like the RL through my 6g6b Blonde Bassman Normal channel with the treble and presence turned up. The RL is dark and this overcomes it and man it sure sounds great through that amp. It really adds the tweediness to the Blonde. I also love the RL through all amps when it is stacked with a Marshall Bluesbreaker in front. The BB is a bright pedal and the RL needs a little brightness. I want to try my Klone with it next. Maybe later today with them stacked into a tweed Champ....the Champ is a dark amp so it will be a good test bed.

 

[TNO]

RL and a 5E3 are a good match.

 

[cousinpaul]

RL and a 5E3 are a good match.

I agree.

 

[Silverface]

Isn't the Red Llama supposed to be used with an amp that is on the verge of breakup?

Yep, just like any other overdrive it will perform best...as designed, anyway...when used with an amp on the verge of breakup/saturation.

When used as a true overdrive - a "boost" to the amp - the Llama really shines in most cases, with some "massaging" of your guitar tone control(s). However, like many "overdrives" if it's used with an amp set to a low volume level...the pedal being used as the only source of distortion/breakup....it can sound very thin and raspy.

So the problem may have nothing to do with the pedal - it may be you're using it with the wrong amp. or just not able to turn the amp up enough to let the pedal do what it was designed to do.

 

[telerocker1988]

I dig my RL into a clean amp. I like clean amps and pedal overdrive/distortion and I find the Way Huge stuff sounds fine into a clean amp...but I like a bright raspy tone so it doesn't bother me as much, I'm the high treble with the bright switch on on a Blackface Fender amp kind of guy, so I like my high end.

If you want another recommendation of a killer Way Huge pedal, try a Fat Sandwich. Killer high gain pedal. A cousin to this pedal IMO sound wise but more of it.

 

[Jakeboy]

Tried it with you Monsterpiece STUD Klone in front and was underwhelmed. I am not big on stacking pedals.....the only reason I referenced stacking the BB with the RL is cause I have both built into one cool pedal.

I did reaffirm my love for the RL through a cranked Normal channel 6g6b, though....I need that tone on my next recording....

 

[Jakeboy]

Ok...I found another rocking RL application. I loaded a bright jazz master type HB-sized pickup from Rumpel in the bridge of my Hamer Artist. Finally the right pickup.

I had never tried the RL with that one...BINGO! Cranked through a 5e3 no less. The RL just thickens up the tone of that pickup just enough...and with the tone on 12 I still have enough brightness.

 

[milocj]

Ok...I found another rocking RL application. I loaded a bright jazz master type HB-sized pickup from Rumpel in the bridge of my Hamer Artist. Finally the right pickup.

I had never tried the RL with that one...BINGO! Cranked through a 5e3 no less. The RL just thickens up the tone of that pickup just enough...and with the tone on 12 I still have enough brightness.

Just out of curiosity, what stock pups did Hamer use in the Artist? I have an early Sunburst that I don't use a whole lot (just not really a humbucker guy) but I thought that the Duncans that were made for the Sunburst after Hamer ran out of real PAFs were supposed to be pretty special.

Did they change up the pickups later on when the Artist came out? I like the Red Llama with my Teles and most of my amps.

 

[MilwMark]

- the Llama really shines in most cases, with some "massaging" of your guitar tone control(s).

Picking up on what Silverface alluded to - I think the Red Llama (maybe-not-so-ironically, like a good small Tweed amp) rewards manipulating the controls on the guitar. What might seem too sharp and "barky" and oversaturated becomes JUST right with a twist back of the volume and tone knobs on the guitar.

If you like to leave all guitar controls on "10" it might not be the right fit for you.

 

[waparker4]

I had a Llama that I liked and sold it, then built a clone that I didn't like because it was too bright.. thread has inspired me. maybe I'll dig it up and give it a spin! My dirt tastes change every two minutes.

 

[tele_pathic]

I've had a few Way Huge pedals in the past: the Green Rhino III, Swollen Pickle, and Pork Loin. I liked them, but I couldn't get to the "I love, LOVE them" stage. And then with all the knobs, and especially the internal trim pots, I just got tired of fooling with all that stuff! I sold them and got some ZVEX boxes, which I DO LOVE, LOVE, LOVE (currently I have the Box of Rock, Distortron, and Mastotron Fuzz).

So I get the "I don't get the Red Llama" concept. I wanted to love the Way Huge stuff but couldn't

 

[MilwMark]

I've had a few Way Huge pedals in the past: the Green Rhino III, Swollen Pickle, and Pork Loin. I liked them, but I couldn't get to the "I love, LOVE them" stage. And then with all the knobs, and especially the internal trim pots, I just got tired of fooling with all that stuff! I sold them and got some ZVEX boxes, which I DO LOVE, LOVE, LOVE (currently I have the Box of Rock, Distortron, and Mastotron Fuzz).

So I get the "I don't get the Red Llama" concept. I wanted to love the Way Huge stuff but couldn't

Except that the Red Llama is in some ways the anti-Way Huge. 2 knobs and no trim pots or fiddling!

 

[NickyB]

The Red Llama is a derivative of the very old yet cool Tube Sound Fuzz by Craig Anderton.

While the circuit is VERY simple and there isn't really much to change, that just means that what Tripps DID change is very much along the lines of the whole "the devil is in the details" thing:

- current limiting resistor increased from 100 ohms to 1K ohms (yes - one THOUSAND ohms)

- pair of low pass filters (remove treble) increased "a bit."

...That first change IMO is a doozie - the current does indeed get decreased (the CMOS inverter chip is a hungry beast), but the supply voltage gets knocked down to less than SEVEN volts.

And - inverters are a bit different from your typical transistor stages or op amp stages - the increased treble rolled off is IMO a bit on the strong side, because inverters have limited headroom and tend to load each other down. Translation - Anderton used very small caps in those two slots, but Tripps went a bit bigger.

It's also probably more appropriate to think of CMOS (mosFET) inverters as being more like power amp chips - they tend to really pass a full range signal unless they are "choked" quite a bit. So even though Tripps slightly reduced the coupling caps vs. what Anderton used, it really doesn't IMO roll off enough bass.

...So it is indeed another instance of limited usefulness IMO, at least in stock form. Just knocking up the supply voltage a bit (e.g. decreasing the current limiting resistor) can do wonders. I'm not advocating for the full-on Anderton circuit, but I don't necessarily think the extreme that the RL is derived into will work for quite a few guitarists.

Bottom line (IMO) - if you find yourself needing to keep the gain/fuzz/drive low or VERY low, either the R.L. in stock form isn't for you, or something that is a bit more derived away from both it and the TSF is probably in order. It is a REALLY cool foundation IMO, but (also IMO) both Anderton and Tripps just scratch the surface with the design. It's not to say that either was short sighted - Anderton put it out as a DIY thing, and IMO Tripps has kept it "crude and low-fi," for the charm that potentially comes with that. If he (Tripps) didn't, it wouldn't be a good foil for what it's typically supposed to be paired up with - typically the Green Rhino if you're a WHE nut. And the super rare Camel Toe put the R.L. and G.R. in a single box.

...Speaking of which - a TS'ish type OD box driven into a R.L./TSF/etc. can sound pretty daggone good when stacked together. This assumes that your dirt needs exceed just the mild variety of stuff.

But yeah - it's understandable not to get the R.L. in stock form, IMO/IME. There's so much more on tap, but not as WHE has the thing wired up. IMO.

Sorry to revive an old thread.

My wife gifted me a RL for my birthday, but I’m not really binding with it. Selling / trading it is really off the table (since it was a gift), so I’m trying to think of ways to make it more useful.

The thing I don’t care for is how quickly it gets “splatty,” especially on the neck pickup, as you turn up the gain.

I wondered whether modding the supply voltage would help. Besides decreasing the value of the current limiting resistor, would you suggest any other changes?

 

[11 Gauge]

I wondered whether modding the supply voltage would help. Besides decreasing the value of the current limiting resistor, would you suggest any other changes?

I would start with that, and hopefully that's all you'll need to do. You could probably get away with just putting another resistor in parallel (e.g. "piggybacked") to the one on the circuitboard. If it doesn't really seem to help, it will be easy to remove it.

Well, there's two coupling caps that you could experiment with reducing their values (they're .068uF and .033uF), but you might end up losing too much low end if you reduce them very much.

 

[NickyB]

I would start with that, and hopefully that's all you'll need to do. You could probably get away with just putting another resistor in parallel (e.g. "piggybacked") to the one on the circuitboard. If it doesn't really seem to help, it will be easy to remove it.

Well, there's two coupling caps that you could experiment with reducing their values (they're .068uF and .033uF), but you might end up losing too much low end if you reduce them very much.

Thanks so much...that was my plan, actually! Although I thought it might be interesting to wire it on a switch too. I’ll be sure to let you know how it goes!