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Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by blowtorch, Feb 12, 2020.
Tragedy, yes, I watch for school buses...
if the guy as a normal human being he will be eaten up inside over this.unless he was being totally reckless, i don't want to demonize him it's why we have juries.
Some of these guys are just flat out defiant. "It wasn't my fault" he might say, over and over.
They're aggrieved by their current life experiences and situation. They see massive wealth, and people zooming on by up the ladder to success, and it fills them with rage. These "defendants" feel like they should be able to behave in any way they like and get as high as they like and when something goes wrong, you see, Society has "set them up".
You and I ask ourselves "why can't this person see what he's doing wrong/has done wrong?". But he's part of a Tribe, and that Tribe can't be scored a loss, so some other explanation must be found.
I've taken sworn depositions of guys like this, or something like this. If they are being eaten up with regret from inside, well they're able to keep it very well hidden. And I am asking the guy to swear an Oath and tell the truth and that makes what happens next the fault of me, the attorney.
I've actually seen expressions of the most wrenching, heartfelt remorse from the surviving driver where he wasn't at fault, in the death or maiming, at all. Except that he showered and got dressed and went to work that day and the decedent or maimed person pulled across his path, against the right of way, at the last possible moment.
Some school buses here have cameras on them now. If you pass them you get a ticket in the mail. It's a start anyway
I don't think it's particularly useful to caricaturize the driver or his behavior at this point. Not enough is known about the situation.
Certainly passing on the right shoulder is very questionable- beyond that, even- but I mean, that could be your father. And for many of us I suspect, there but for the grace of God go we, at least in one stage of our lives (or one that is yet to come, perhaps).
Don't get me wrong, I'm not giving this guy any kind of a pass.
It's all just so sad
Thanks for the thread... It prodded me to catch up on the local laws as to when to pass a school bus.
Basically never when you are going same direction
Certainly never if it has ANY flashing lights.
When I pull up behind a stopped bus with flashing lights I put on the 4-ways.
Well the sad part is multiple parts and at some point we face forcing elders to stop driving, often with severe protest.
Some years ago a GF's Dad kept hitting things like fire hydrants up on the side walk and insisting they moved or were not there yesterday etc.
My Mother hit a car and claimed it "just appeared out of nowhere" on a stretch of road with no driveways side streets or parking lots.
I pointed out that it had to have come from somewhere, and she got very angry asking why I was siding with the other driver.
After she hit a parked car and a building a few minutes apart and her license was revoked she tried to keep driving so I unhooked the battery. She got a mechanic to come by and get her car started, and this was the basics of an elder who is losing memory and sense to dementia. Explaining to her that her car was not registered or insured and she had no drivers license didn't help.
Pointing out that she was having trouble concentrating and could hit a child didn't help.
She had to do the same thing with her own Mother, but that didn't help with her own loss of driving.
Heartbreaking for an elder to lose independence but worse for a child to lose their entire life.
Calling a spade a spade is required no matter how much it hurts...
...Of course we don't know why this feller passed a school bus on the right with flashing lights etc, but with the info of no drunk driving arrest at the scene and him being in his 70s it's a likely reason.
Sad I suppose for us here since many of us are getting up there and we don't know what we will lose or when, but can be assured that we will be losing stuff we wish we could keep.
I know, it could be my Dad, his driving was good enough for the country, but for example he'd last about 25 minutes in heavy Los Angeles traffic. He's going to be 94 in June.
But anyway, California doesn't see different parts of the state as needing different standards, so they've been on a full scale campaign to take his license once he turned 90. No tickets, never hit anything or anyone. And they came for him so hard (he's been subjected to retesting 3 times so far) that this scared my Mom into not renewing this past year (she's 92).
And so, they're way out in the country and cannot drive anymore. They're 18 miles from a grocery store or pharmacy. Not going to Los Angeles on their own, not even San Jose. I think the Heartland of this country is sloppy about keeping tabs on older drivers, while the Coastal states are rapidly becoming very hostile places for older people to live. I think my Dad behind the wheel and my Mom riding shotgun was a dynamite combination. Speaking of shotguns, that's our approach to managing differently abled drivers. Or people who are just presumed to be diminished because of age alone.
Sometimes I feel like the State of California is a midprice, casual dining restaurant. Older citizens, not paying any income tax? Flip those tables; get those diners in and out of this restaurant as soon as possible. Force them into an assisted living center, so they can hurry up and die.
On a multi-lane when traveling the same direction, you can pass on the left side as long as the reds are not flashing or the "stop sign" is not displayed... This is for TX, YMMV.
If the "stop sign" is displayed and the reds are flashing, traffic is to stop from both directions...
As a person who raised a houseful of children and now a houseful of grandchildren I have little sympathy for anyone who doesn’t stop for school buses or stops and then takes off when they deem it appropriate.
I’ve spent countless hours at bus stops waiting to watch my child get on the bus.
I’ve seen so many people disregard the flashing sign that the youngest four grandkids were all driven to school.
The added work of getting up and taking them to school and waiting for them after school is far better than the worry of them being injured or assaulted getting to school by bus or walking.
Kids being kids my oldest grand daughter use to beg me to let her ride the bus. I use to drive to the school and watch her get off the bus just for my own peace of mind. My middle grandson begged me to let him walk. I use to do pretty much the same, I’d drive to school a wait for him and his friends to walk there.
The nightmare that the parents are going through after no doubt watching their babies get mowed down by a pickup truck is exactly what motivates me to drive them or try to ensure they get there and back home safely. Of course none of my precautions would have prevented what happened in this case.
I was actually hit by a bus while riding my bike to work. I was clipped by the side mirror and sent flying into the ditch. Just a few cuts and bruises.
The bus didn't stop.
I'm a geezer and I am very cognizant of my diminished driving ability. I live in a small town of 1,500 so there is mostly no traffic to speak of.
A couple of years ago I drove my brother to Houston for medical treatment dozens of times and, well, I was scared spitless.
Anyone with half a brain knows or should know that any time a bus is stopped, lights or not, there is a possibility of kids running into the road.
At the grocery store tonight I passed a geezer (on the right) and saw he had a bouquet of flowers in his one free hand as he slowly hobbled along.
Seeing as most hunched over hobbling elders are generally silent and alone, I said "Flowers! That oughtta do it!".
He brightened up and answered "I hope so, if they don't I don't know what will!".
A few minutes later he finally made it to the checkout with his adjustomatic cane and flowers for his girl and continued to describe his evening, saying "I took her to Angelinas for dinner, have you eaten there?"
I answered that I had and it was good, plus a little more small talk before I headed off with my groceries, wondering if there was a little old lady waiting in the car, and there was indeed two cars waiting by the door but none driven by a little old lady.
The closer one had an older graybeard, maybe this codgers son who brought them to dinner and had dropped the lady home before the flower errand. I doubt the elder couple are still driving.
These are our future selves, scrapping along in their diminished conditions and making the best of it as they see fit and are able.
I reckon it's a mercy to take away an elders right to drive before they maybe take away the life of a child.
As @boris bubbanov said it seems like some states are sloppy about keeping tabs on older drivers, but that includes coastal Maine and MA, where I've seen plenty of dangerous driving elders.
Not as many as weaving drunk drivers leaving the big happy hour spots, and up to last summer not as many as weaving smartphone obsessed drivers.
If CA is really forcing capable elder drivers into a corner unfairly that's too bad, but if they simply require a driving test every other year after 75-80 I think it keeps everyone safer including the elder, who would not choose driving knowing it would cost the life of a child.
I suppose municipalities might ought to see that there are car services available to their elders who lose driving privileges though.
Wouldn't be hard to make that happen, a small town like where I live could easily delegate a community service vehicle and offer M/W/F shopping trips or whatever was needed.
York Hospital has car and van service to get folks to doc and hosp appts.
Local grocers could easily offer free grocery delivery for elders.
We have meals on wheels, visiting nurses, paid home health aids etc.
Big old aging America brimming with life extending med tech and laws that require lives be saved unless folks formerly signed a DNR.
Gotta face up to our legacy and provide...
That is tragic .
How could that driver be on the right side of the bus where schoolchildren alight?
I don't make statements or judgments but the driver, at his age, should have his licence revoked for life as well as whatever the courts determine in his sentencing.
Maybe he had a stroke, or a heart attack, or low blood sugar.
I'm not defending the guy, but why not find out what happened, and have a trial before the sentencing.
My initial guess would be that he was driving to fast for the foggy conditions and swerved around the right side of the bus to avoid colliding with it's rear end. Again just a guess, but a reasonable one, I think.
My wife often sends elderly patients for a mandatory driving test if she suspects they are a danger on the road. They can be angry about this -- they may lose a big part of their independence if they can no longer drive, but what might be the consequence if nothing is done?
It's tough stuff. Now my mother's had recent health issues but at late age still helps with hospice she's been very realistic. My mother in law might be a different story. She wants to die in her on home and is overboard with independence efforts.
I so hope most elderly are as realistic as my grandmother and mother and I hope I'm that honest or aware when the time comes.
The saddest with this for me right now is my mother drives for other elderly people and hospice patients who can't. She purposely traded her fine car for an AWD SUV with latest robotic safety aids to help but is cutting back. A friend from childhood in that town does the same and she's now dealing with cancer. In addition to my mother's challenges I know a hand full of people either side of 90 who will lose their trips to the grocery store and doctor. It is very sad knowing and seeing this tough stuff on the back side of life.
Not looking to argue, but if as you describe... "he was driving too fast for conditions"
Times are changing and new solutions are needed, probably some not for profit solutions in an established big money industry.
State by state varies a lot and then there's a whole world or variation and differing economies etc.
Some US states take an elders house as soon as they go into a state nursing home, and keep the estate even if the elder only lives a week in nursing care.
Some communities rely on the generosity of individuals like your Mother, to provide what are really community services.
If a municipality is expected to provide public services for the children, maybe it's time to provide similar for the aging.
As far as providing services vs policing the deterioration of the mental capacity of elders, they should maybe go hand in hand.
Some assurance that there are community services for the aging when they lose some abilities like driving would make driving tests less offensive, even as of course we won't like losing our car.
One thing I notice is loneliness in the elders I see out in public, maybe as much as anything because they are focused on the struggle of standing and walking so less focused on seeing and greeting.
A transition from fully independent to using community services could have positive side effects, both for the needy and for the providers if for example hiring targeted the still ambulatory retirees who lack the funding to move to warm retirement communities and sip martinis in their golden years. Or whatever folks do on cruises and at country clubs etc.
Of course we still don't know if the driver in his 70s killed a child due to elder issues.
Maybe he was just a bad man who always drove drunk and scoffed at laws.
Seems there would have been an arrest in the report though if that was the case?