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Vox MV50 Owners

Discussion in 'Amp Owners Clubs' started by sluglas, Mar 19, 2018.

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  1. sliberty

    sliberty Tele-Afflicted

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    Ok then, if the Cooks can supply 2A thru that ac outlet, you should be fine. But the cable that goes from ac adapter to amp is fixed and cannot be detached or replaced.
     
  2. the tool

    the tool Tele-Holic

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    Yes, that cable i will use as is. The AC adapter will be under the pedalboard
     
  3. the tool

    the tool Tele-Holic

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    Heres a few pedalboard iterations i had using the Clean. Currently doing a new board.

    T-Rex Tonetrunk 45
    (Was nice looking, But to heavy and felt like it would break)
    3D2EDF54-691D-4EA0-964C-AD2E6C4B6733.jpeg

    Rockcase (hardcase board)
    Was practical but a bit of a mess.
    F87553ED-BA6E-469A-B6A1-5906C2EDC1A9.jpeg

    Diago Commuter
    Had been with me forever, first board i bought and i have it as a ”try pedals and setups” board
    0490AE22-4809-4CF2-9EA0-0EF6A0A0931A.jpeg
     
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  4. con brio

    con brio Tele-Meister

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    I doubt highly that its any specific model, but its in that blackface (maybe silverface) family as others have said. I'd narrow it a little further to suggest mid power based on how tight and full the bass response is, and how much breakup you get out if it (some, but you really have to crank it). If I absolutely pick one i guess its more of a the normal channel of a deluxe than say a pro or vibrolux, just based on the power rating, but you'll never get the sort of poweramp distortion of those amps.

    For what its worth, it’s not hard to set it up as a fairly neutral platform. I've run a variety of of dirt pedals into it with the bass and treble knobs near noon (varies exactly based on the room) and use mids compressed OD (Bearfoot Honey Bee), bright scooped tweedy OD (Bearfoot SYOD), the Voodoo Labs giggity preamp (which has four varied voices), as well as fuzz, and it’s been great.
     
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  5. ozan

    ozan TDPRI Member

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    I had hard time to dial in a good tone out of a Muff type pedal and a silicon fuzz face. But otoh dumble and marshall voiced pedals sounded really good.

    I guess this is due to the midrange characteristic of the amp. I think Rat and TS types pedals will sound good as well.
     
  6. -Hawk-

    -Hawk- Friend of Leo's

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    Can’t help on the voicing, but haven’t had any issues with the pedals I’ve run through it. Currently using a Klon clone and a Catalinbread Karma Suture silicon. Seems very generic to me, which is a good thing for how I intend to use it.
     
  7. sliberty

    sliberty Tele-Afflicted

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    I currently use these three dirt pedals with my Clean:

    Timmy clone
    KOT clone
    Jan Ray clone

    All three were built from pcb’s I was able to buy online. I also use a tuner, a compressor, a modulation pedal, a delay and a Reverb, and finally a clean boost. But of course it’s the dirt pedals (mostly) that create the overall tone. The Timmy and KOT are my main pedals, with the Jan Ray being a big of a special use pedal. Sometimes I dial it in for stacking, and sometimes I dial it if to run on its own.

    To me, the specific voice of the Clean is ... neutral. Which makes it suitable as a generic pedal platform. Ive actually found it harder than dail in other amps because they have their own voice to contend with.
     
  8. con brio

    con brio Tele-Meister

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    That seems likely. Some fuzzes put out a lot of high frequency content. You are right that the slightly scooped mids doesn't help but actually any high headroom amp with a lot of treble is going to need a bit more work. If you drop just about any overdrive between the muff or fuzzface and the amp, even set fairly clean, you should find between its compression and tone circuit that it really brings the fuzz back to where you want it. Just be aware that if the drive's volume is set closer to unity that it might reduce the output of the fuzz if you are using it for a solo boost.

    The two fuzzes I have used with it are a gated germanium fuzz with a treble control and a Mojohand Zephyr (approximately a sam ash fuzz) which in addition to having a tone control has a bit of an overdrivey character to its sound even when wide open, and I haven’t needed to use the drive pedal trick, although it still works well with it.
     
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  9. Mr Scallywag

    Mr Scallywag Tele-Holic

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    Thinking about the frustration of the speaker ohms to power output... is this a problem inherent with nutube technology, amp size, or just something Vox like to annoy people with? Like the AC10 only running to 16 ohm cabs, I can't help but think it's a very limiting factor.
     
  10. con brio

    con brio Tele-Meister

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    Then poweramp is what’s important here. The nutubes are only in the preamp. It’s not like Vox is doing something weird or dumb here it’s just the physics of the amp in play, they are just telling you what is happening.

    It’s pretty straight forward: if the amp is working with a 4ohm load (ie how much work it is to move the speakers) at 50 watts then if you need to move twice the load (8ohm), the power of the amp is effectively halved (25watts).

    It’s quick plausible that this exact relationship is in play in a tube amp, but it’s surprisingly hard to hear the difference in volume when you only double the power. It’s especially true when often changes in impedance are the result of adding more speakers which increases volume.

    In the case of a tube amp the support speaker loads are heavily dependant on the choice of output transformer. Unlike class D which just copes with a change in load, to safey change load on a tube amp requires a different set of windings and tap on the transformer. This adds cost and weight.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2018
  11. Mr Scallywag

    Mr Scallywag Tele-Holic

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    I had to read that a couple of times, but I think I get it, thanks.
     
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  12. sliberty

    sliberty Tele-Afflicted

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    Tube amplifiers use an output transformer to connect the power tubes to the speakers. Some output transformers have multiple taps, supporting 4, 8, and 16 ohm speaker’s. Some only support 4 and 8 ohms, or 8 and 16 ohms. And still other output transformers only support 1 output impedance.

    Amps with solid state power sections, like the MV50, do not use an output transformer. The output impedance is related to the transistors used for the power section. Other impedance are still usable, but the power that can be generated will vary. So in the case of the MV50, the output transistors are optimized for 4 ohms, but can also be used at 8 ohms or even 16 ohms, however with lower power output.

    This issue is inherent in solid state power amps. The preamp, as stated by con brio, is not relevant.
     
  13. LGOberean

    LGOberean Doctor of Teleocity

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    I'm still not getting it. I understand the concept of an amp designed for working with a 4 ohm load being effectively halved if working with an 8 ohm load. But if you design an amp head to be a 50 watt amp (MV50), then why market it with cabs that cannot give you the full 50 watts? The BC108 and BC112 are both 8 ohms, so you get 25 watts, not the full 50, from the cabs that are marketed for the amp. Why not design and market a cab for the MV50 that has a 4 ohm speaker?

    (I realize that the BC112-150 in the Vox Black Cabinet series has a 4 ohm speaker. But that was not and is not being billed as a cab to be paired with the MV50 amps. It debuted early this year with the unveiling of the MVX150 amps, and is according to Vox Amps "Perfect for the MVX150H, MVX150C1..." The BC108 & BC112 both have 8 ohm speakers, and the BC108 in particular is rated at 25 watts RMS and is specifically described as "Designed to pair with the innovative MV50...")

    And with the unveiling of the Mini super Beetle, the same thing occurs. While "built off the MV50 platform" and thus having 50 watt capability, its abbreviated designation/model # is MSB25. The 10" speaker is 8 ohms, so you get 25 watts. You must connect two 8 ohm speakers simultaneously to achieve the full 50 watts.

    Don't get me wrong; I'm still GASing for the Mini Super Beetle, and am still looking at the Vox cabs and even an MV50 Boutique. But it's tempting to think cynically, that Vox is trying to manipulate the consumer into buying two of their cabs just to get the amp's full advertised capability. I don't want to think this way, but as Mr. Scallywag said, it's frustrating.
     
  14. con brio

    con brio Tele-Meister

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    @LGOberean not being a vox employee I can only speculate. My guess for the naming as a 50watt amp vs a 25 watt amp is two fold:

    One: that it seems like that is the max power you can ring out of it, ie that is the actual power rating of the power amp regardless of its typical operating power with the matched cabs. Nothing in the bumph says you can connect it to a 2ohm load to get 100watts frinstance.

    Two: cynically, it does just sound better in the marketing.

    Regarding the matched cabs being 8ohms rather than 4ohms. Yeah that seems like a bit of a mistep perception wise. It does make vox seem a tiny bit shady. I can only guess that they chose the 8ohm speaker because they think it sounds better with the amp.
     
  15. the tool

    the tool Tele-Holic

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    Maybe it upsets some people, if they have very special wattage needs.

    Look at me... im like the perfect MV50 customer, the whole concept was designed and aimed at me.

    I have a 1x12 at home, its 16 ohms.
    How loud do you think i play that, at home? I dont go past 10 o’clock.

    At band practice i have a 2x12, its 8 ohms. The volume knob doesnt go past 12 o’clock and we have a loud drummer. No miking, ear protecion etc etc...

    I guess its all relative to ones needs. But to me it seems if Anyone would really need something else wattage/ohm wise, theyre maybe looking at other products already.
     
  16. LGOberean

    LGOberean Doctor of Teleocity

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    Yeah, there's a perception aspect to this, but it's the perception that Vox has created. Granted, in one sense, they have simply stated "the max power you can ring out of it." But there's more to it than that.

    (1) They named it the MV50. By this choice of name they are emphasizing the 50 watt capability of the amp head.

    (2) The literature/online overview information emphasizes its 50 watt capability, as this statement from the Vox Amps web page for the MV50 shows: "This little monster weighs in at only one pound but boasts a tremendous 50 Watts of power..."

    (3) In the video reports and "first looks" at its unveiling at NAMM, much was made of the 50 watt output capability.

    So it is not unreasonable of me to want to get the full 50 watts out of this when I want to. Granted, I may have plenty of applications where I get what I need from it running it in its 25 watt mode. But if I expect to get 50 watts from it, I'm not expecting more than Vox has designed it for; I'm not putting words in their mouths. They want me to think of this as a 50 watt amp.

    But relative to their speakers, I'd have to buy two of their speakers (two BC108s, two BC112s, or 1 BC108 & 1 BC112) and run them in parallel to get that 50 watt output. So the cost of running an MV50 amp at 50 watts is the cost of the mini Vox head plus a couple of speaker cabinets. And that's why I have yet to pull the trigger.
     
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  17. the tool

    the tool Tele-Holic

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    I agree with you on every point :) i surely was not meaning to disrespect your specific situation.

    Imho they should have made ”better” cabs, and put some more effort into it. Basically theres only a few readily avaliable 4 ohm cabs on the market... theres some 4x12 here and there that can do that, and very very few 2x12’s.

    They could have made a huge sucsess with a high end 4 ohm cab, selling alot of them and in the same time honoring their ”cabinet heritage”...
    I wonder how hard it would be or how much it would cost to have a input panel on the back of the cab with switching options to run the speakers in different settings? Possible?

    Some MV users has gone about making their own custom 4 ohm cabs, wich is great if one has that interest and know how. I dont... but im perfectly content with it all...

    With that said, my only initial worry was band practice situations, because Thats the only time i need volume. But in the end, the volume from 2x12 at 8 ohm was more than enough.
     
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  18. con brio

    con brio Tele-Meister

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    So one thing I’m curious about with these amps with the different loads is if it has an effect on the bass response. With say a tube amp with a low power mode (or in fact, the MV50 clean with the attenuator engaged) the difference is often most noticable in the bass response (not the bass volume†); the lower power mode is less capable of reproducing the low frequencies accurately so they start to become a bit softer and might induce sag.

    With the class D poweramp, my very loose understanding is that its not actually changing power when you attach it to a heavier load, just the effective power (ie the SPL off the speakers) is lower. What I’m curious about is whether the character of the bass changes. My guess is that it doesn’t. Obviously this is something that is hard to test as the speaker change is going to also color the bass response. Anyway, that’s enough speculating.


    † although fletcher munson suggests that you will perceive a difference in the bass volume when the overall volume drops.
     
  19. the tool

    the tool Tele-Holic

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    This is all science to me, but in my own experience.

    At home with the 1x12 16ohm there is a significant bass loss/drop. I generaly turn bass up to at least 12 o’clock. Vs the 2x12 8 ohm in rehearsal studio, i turn down bass to about 9-10 o’clock. Also turn treble down.

    That might just be the because off the speaker difference and the different volume need.
     
  20. LGOberean

    LGOberean Doctor of Teleocity

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    I don't mean to be the Grinch of the MV50 thread. I was excited about the Nutube technology being applied to amps when it was first showcased. I'm still excited about it. I was GASing for the AC version when they first came out. And when they introduced the Mini Super Beetle at Summer NAMM this year, I turned my attention to that amp, which is basically an MV50 AC with a more versatile tone stack and built in effects, and its own cab with a 10" speaker.

    And I'm not denigrating the Vox line of Black Cabinet offerings. I'm sure they sound great and pair well with the MV50 line. I was GASing for them, too. But I didn't really want the BC108. I have my Vox Pathfinder 15Rs which have 8" speakers, and so I was looking for a 12" speaker cabinet. That way I could line out from a PF15R to a 1x12, as well as use the cab for the MV50.

    But very shortly after they unveiled the MV50s and the BC line of cabs, the BC112 became hard to find. Now it's not offered by Sweetwater, GC or MF. Looks like it can still be ordered from Amazon, but they don't have many in stock. And of course, as I've already been going on about, one BC cab won't let you get the full 50. I'm interested in the MV50s and the MSB specifically for more output. Like I said, I already have some Pathfinder 15Rs, so if I want to do a small venue with a small amp, I can and have gigged with the Pathfinders. I want an amp that's loud enough in its own right for larger venues. I'm not talking arenas, obviously.

    And as for a cab with an input panel that offers switching options, Bugera offers a couple of affordable cabs for that: their 212TS and 412TS. But I really wasn't looking for a 2x12" cabinet, let alone a 4x12", since I'm wanting to go lighter on my gear. I'm pushing 65, and have had quadruple bypass surgery. I'm hoping I can find a cab that doesn't weigh upwards of 50 lbs.
     
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