VM Squire 3-pup 5-way switch help?

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by hardlock, Sep 21, 2009.

  1. hardlock

    hardlock TDPRI Member

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    I got a used Squier vintage mod tele off Ebay and was warned the mid pickup may be wired out of phase. I checked the wiring and it looks the same as the factory diagram but I could see lots of work had been done in it.

    Then I found a thread for switching the stock neck-mid-bridge switching to allow a neck/bridge combo by swaping the hot leads of 2 PUs on the switch.

    After making the change, I now end up with neck, neck+bridge, neck+middle, bridge+middle, and middle? No single bridge location? Maybe it won't work with this kind of switch?

    Here's the factory diagram for my guitar and where I switched the wires:

    http://www.tdpri.com/forum/attachme...-5-way-3-pickup-wiring-mod-squier-wire-sw-jpg

    Also, here is a pic of the 5-way switch (from the Ibanez site w/ their wiring use)
     

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  2. hardlock

    hardlock TDPRI Member

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    Here's the fun part. I removed the switch to see exactly what it does with a meter and found out these very interesting results:

    Since the switch is a dual set of poles I will just be discussing one half of the poles.

    meter on pole one and center common - position 3,4,5 = contact
    meter on pole two and center common - position 2,4 = contact
    meter on pole three & center common - position 1,2,3 = contact

    Hopefuly there is a way to get neck, neck+bridge, mid, mid+bridge, bridge settings, not important the order or whether the mid+bridge setting is instead mid+neck.

    I know I can add another switch to get it to work but would like to be able to put it back stock. I just can't see how the stock wiring will even work with the way the switch meters. Maybe it's bad? I've checked it a dozen times now with the same results, with and w/o the common and other pole jumpers shown on the factory drawing. Please help! :cry:
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2009
  3. hardlock

    hardlock TDPRI Member

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    Bump - Well I somehow got it the way I wanted. To the life of me I don't know why however. I put the wiring back exactly as in the factory diagram but knowing from my meter tests it wouldn't be the same as the factory switching arrangement shown below left. I made up the chart on the right below based on the meter tests above.

    Here's what I got - middle position is bridge mixed with neck - exactly what I wanted! No straight mid position but that's not important to me, just the mixes.

    Since others may be trying to do the same thing with their 3 pup, 5-way, VM Squiers, I'd be real interested in hearing their results from their efforts as I still have a lot of questions about this issue:

    1) why isn't the factory wiring giving me the factory switching selection results?
    2) what are the jumpers doing on the switch if anything and if nothing, why are they there from the factory?
    3) positions 2 and 4 (the middle PU mixes) do seem weaker than the rest so maybe the mid is out of phase or something?

    Maybe the factory wires them that way for that "vintage" sound? (it is kind of cool to go from the thin mix tone for rhythm to a full lead sound with just the switch. :cool: )
     

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  4. jlerhun

    jlerhun Tele-Meister

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    Hmmm, interesting !
    Is it this guitar ? http://www.squierguitars.com/pdf/current/Tele/Vintage Modified SSH Tele-Service.pdf
    The wiring diagram is identical to yours, but on the last page it says that the pickups are switched in a traditional way (like a strat, with the mid pickup alone in the 3rd position).

    Is the switch stock, or has it been changed by the previous owner ? It seems to be made to allow Neck+Bridge in the middle position, like this one : http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electro...nd_knobs/Megaswitches/Megaswitch_E-Model.html
    You may notice that the pattern seen through the PCB is not exactly the same as in your picture, with no central "T" shape, but something ressembling a "U". That provides all the classic Tele tones plus the "notch" positions of a Strat. That seems desirable to many people, as the mid pickup alone often lacks "character".

    To get the classic behaviour back, the simplest way is to change the switch again for a standard one. Then you can swap Neck and Mid.
    But i think it might be possible to get the combos you want with such a switch, i just don't find how right now. With series wiring it would be easy to short unwanted coil(s), but for parallel you'll have to open the circuit (for example to disconnect the neck PU in position 2, leaving mid alone) and that switch doesn't seem to allow that in the relevant position.
    Or you could use the tone pot as a blend for one of the pickups.

    As a side note, how does that guitar feel and sound ? I was thinking of buying one, but i tried a CV first and bought it instead ! I'm curious about the sounds of the neck mini-humbucker, and these hum-free stacked single-coils.
     
  5. cc9cii

    cc9cii Friend of Leo's

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    I don't have this switch, but I'm having difficulty believing your results :eek: I've never heard of such an arrangement.

    Was the switch out of circuit when you tested it?

    EDIT: nvm, jlerhun posted while I was typing, looks like on the right track
     
  6. hardlock

    hardlock TDPRI Member

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    Yes, that's the one (and the diagrams I referenced)

    Right, I'm not familiar with strat ops (went from LP to tele) but the stock diagram shows the mid position just for the mid PU. Maybe it is a mod switch. The pin layout looks the same as on the diagram (all in a row off-center) and they sell a similar switch on ebay for strats. I'm going to have to email the previous owner as see if I can get some more info. It's possible that the switch was modded internally maybe?

    This is my first Squier and compared to an MIJ thinline and MIJ aerodyne, I'm happy with it. I swapped the neck with a new standard ebony fretboard squier one I had mainly because it was new and I like ebony fretboards (looks cool too).

    I like the mini-humbucker myself. Got sold on it on the Aerodyne. (assuming a soapbar is a humbucker?) Anyway, fuller, warmer sound from it (them) not that I don't like a stock tele neck PU but was sort of wishing the mid PU in this would sound like one. Hey, that's an idea... switch out the strat-mid for a tele neck. Trouble with that is that I have a feeling the tone they get is a result of the location and distance from the bridge PU when mixed?

    Looks like they painted the inerds with conductive paint for shielding. Nice touch and real quiet. I think the big difference with the humbucker type pups is that with less winds they are not as hot? Just a guess and since I just adjust the gain on my input, don't really care. :rolleyes:

    I'm new to most of this guitar modding and am learning a lot. Great fun and ties my tech background with my music hobby. :)
     

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  7. hardlock

    hardlock TDPRI Member

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    Sorry, missed your question. Yes, I completely removed the switch to test. It's the same one shown in the picture, not a mega switch.

    It also isn't symetrical in it's connections. On the side with jumper (and with the jumper removed) all I get is position 4 connection to common. I think I'll order a couple and test:

    5-WAY-Blade-Selector-Switches-for-Tele-Strat-Guitar
     
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