Vintage alnico speakers from organs & stereos.

[6942]

Hello people!!
With the cost of guitar speakers rising, along with EVERYTHING else now days, it pays to look for alternatives?
One alternative I have found, is the use of vintage alnico organ and stereo speakers.
Leo Fender didn't design guitar speakers, he bought off-the-shelf speakers, just like all the other manufacturers of his day did.
The same speakers found in Leo's cabs...also found their way into Hammond organs, Zenith stereo speakers, and many others.
E-bay (despite the obvious risks) is a treasure trove for old alnico speakers.
Zenith, Philco, Hammond, Magnavox....did NOT make their own drivers.
Despite a speaker being marked "Philco"....you will also see numbers on the back side of the drivers....these numbers are the manufacturing codes of the actual makers of that speaker.
Some of the more common and desirable numbers are:
220..............................Jensen
137..............................CTS
433..............................Cleveland
285..............................ROLA
575..............................Heppner
465..............................Oxford (I think?)
MANY of these speakers can be purchased in VGC for under $20.
Is there a risk.............of course.
But a good (and hopefully honest) seller will say on his/her listing "No rips, no holes, no voice-coil rubbing".
I've purchased some of these old alnico speakers that looked almost NOS?
Just a cheap alternative people for already broken-in speakers.....your money....your call.

Steve

 

[voided3]

I would imagine that organ speakers would work well, but I'd be a bit concerned about using hi-fi speakers since they typically are lower efficiency and wider range. That said though, I once stuck a random 8" whizzer cone stereo speaker in a Squier BP-15 practice amp and it sounded great for guitar until it blew. If you can find the stuff for a good price it's definitely worth a shot as long as they don't need a re-cone just to try them out. Personally though I would not use older alnico speakers with higher powered guitar amps unless you know that they were intended for higher powered receivers or organs/Leslie cabs; something like a 15 watt amp would be a good way to test. I bet my Valve Junior head would work great with a pair of 15"s from a stereo console!

 

[6942]

Good point.
MOST of the older alnico speakers aren't rated much higher than 20-25 watts.
That was pretty much the upper limit for much of the tube gear sold back then.
So a hundred watt Marshall would be the kiss-of-death for sure.
But a 5 watt EV Jr. or 15 watt Fender?
You're good to go...............

Steve

 

[jh45gun]

Back then a speaker was a speaker meaining they did not have special speakers then for cars or hifi ect or at least not like to day and lots of speaker models did double and triple duty for different applications. Of course you have to depended on what power it could handle too but I think a lot of those hifi speakers were more power rated then what the unit they were in put out. Those Alnico speakers out of old hifis are fine as long as they are in good shape. The same model speaker back then could be found in a guitar amp or a organ or a hifi unit. As long as they are in good shape a Alnico taken out of a Hifi is fine!

 

[DADGAD]

Now you've gone and let the cat out of the bag on our little speaker secret.

Yes, the old organ alnicos make great speakers after a recone. Cheaper than new Jensens and mine sound better, too. I had Eric at Orange County Speaker repair do the recone work on the speakers in my gigging amps. Don't be afraid of old alnicos that are blown or have worn out cones. You might find a diamond in the rough for only a few dollars.

Stock, the Heppner organ speakers usually run 16 ohms and they come in pairs. One tuned for low frequencies and one for full range. They're my favs.

 

[telel6s]

I've got a 1964 Magnavox (CTS) 15" alnico speaker that I assume is from a Hi-Fi system. It sounded great when I had a Tweed Deluxe amp. Much less volume than a Weber Chicago and 15F125. But a nice round and smooth sound. Clean to cleanish bass notes remind me of a good acoustics's bloom of the low notes.

If you've got $20 sitting around, these old speakers are a fun way to spend a little fun money.

 

[bosrocker51]

I know this is an old thread, but I bought 4 - 12" Heppners (16 ohm) and wired them into a Marshall cab, series, to yield 4 ohms. This matches the output of my 1973 Champ, modded with a speaker line out. While the Champ is only 5 watts or so, it sounds very full (if not loud) and nice compared to the 8" Jensen I put in the Champ. Those old Heppners are a deal in my opinion. Being annico, they are much lighter than the heavy duty ceramic mag speakers out there.

 

[lioncommandking]

I also purchased a pair of Clevelands and a pair of ROLAs supposedly used in old organs. Both sound great, but one of the Clevelands I had to send to Weber's for reconing. But both were overall great deals that I really appreciate and the tone is vintage Fender.

 

[6942]

My open-backed 2x12 diagonal cabinet uses a pair of 60's 8 ohm Cleveland speakers, in parallel.
They are gold framed organ pulls, with large H screen dust caps.....VERY smooth sounding!



Steve

 

[strat a various]

The larger stereo and hi-fi speakers of the 50s and 60s, many pre-stereo, were heavy duty speakers, used often in big consoles and juke boxes. They were rated at 10-20 watts, but remember, a JBL D-130 is essentially a 25 watt speaker. I have some Magnavox and Jensen projector and Cordovox speakers, really organ speakers, and they are good low wattage speakers. 10 watts can be really loud in a small venue. If you mic the amp, you might use them at a bigger gig.

 

[Hackguitarist]

Good point.
MOST of the older alnico speakers aren't rated much higher than 20-25 watts.

Ted Weber had commented on a few Cleveland Conn Organ Pulls saying factoring in age, a little lower on the watts/ This on a few 1968 speakers I pulled. One was a CTS actually, a 12", the other a 15" Cleveland Alnico. Out of all the old 60s speakers I have procured, these are the best sounding. Fun stuff to tinker with

Include Hepner and Jensens. Not that they are/where bad, I just like the ones from the Conn better

But they do not sound better [or worse] than a SIG 12 Alnico I paid $45.00 shipped. So not sure how much trouble my old speaker quests have been with stuff like the Sig 12 Alnico a phone call away.

I also have a 12A150, but the scavenging comparison changes when the speaker cost $200.00

 

[chezdeluxe]

Don't forget that Celestion alnico Blues were originally Radio speakers before Vox decided to use them.

 

[Wyzsard]

Great thread, I just pulled 2 12" RCA(code 274) speakers out of a '59 RCA Victor console. They are 8 ohm.

I have an EVJ mini stack, so what can expect to hear if I replace the Eminence stock speaker with one of these ? Will I experience the different types of "breakup" ? Cone yowl, crunch, cry, etc. ?

 

[kiwicano]

I know this is a long while after the topic started but I'd like to throw my 10 cents into the hat, so to speak.

Two weeks ago, I went looking for any kind of old vintage speakers -preferabley Alnico- to try out with my iron sounds Traveller 18 amp I'd just built. I found an unbranded 12' alnico on my local NZ trading website and decided to put on a bid. I won the bid in the end and the guy offered along the way to sell me its matching speaker for whatever the auction closed at. he said the cones needed work and would need a re-coning soon. But i took a punt the magnets would still be great and I won the Auction and paid $5.50 for the speaker and in the end gave the guy $20 nz dollars for them both, I hated to think he may have been getting done. he had no idea of the brand or year. They arrived yesterday and on the basket frame i found this little tag.

They were indeed Old Celestions! I found a serial number and looked online and I came up with 27th March 1966?

I emailed Celestions Help desk to get more info on the speakers and received an email this morning

The speakers are not from 66 but from 27th November 1959! the celestial guy hadn't seen any of them before but knows them to be one of the forerunners to the acclaimed G-12 speaker that went on to become the famous Blueback.

I patched up the tears best i could to try out the speakers in a cone. and they work like a dream, there loud as hell, 15 ohms and way more efficient than i thought they'd be, they definitely need a re cone, as you can see there were a lot of tears, the cone is so brittle and fragile its like egg shells.. it cracks and tears so easy.

The guy from Celestion in the UK emailed me back and suggested i didn't re-cone until i drastically had too as they would lose some tone and to just keep patching up the tiny tears.. so I've been doing that. I've had them at two shows now and there just amazing sounding.. Neil finn from crowded House has an old Vox ac30 i've played thru , its a 1959-60 and the speakers have the same tone as these, nice breakup and lush overdrive. not a super tight bottom end like the newer speakers and and it does have a chimey top end, but with my gretsch anni6118 it suits well and my fender has that nice jangle chime..

 

[Jimmyspaz]

Well now the cats out of the bag! I've found a bunch of these over the years,, Go out for a walk on "big garbage day" in the suburbs with a multidriver in your pocket, and keep your eyes open. I always check old console hi-fis, stereos, and electric organs for speakers. Often find useful ones, especially good for replacement in old amps, I have been able to match dates often, nice to have the "right" speaker. I have never actually had to pay for any of them either, wonderful what people throw out!

 

[blues]

Pulls from organs ect. usually have a different cone thickness than a guitar speaker. I bought an original jensen from the 50s that came from an organ. For example 12PR,there may be another letter following the R. I dont know if or how much that effects the sound.

 

[kiwicano]

old radio speakers like my celestions above had the same cone thickness as the guitar speakers they modeled from them. I've been told there are a lot of old alnico speakers out there that make great guitar speakers, you just can't run them with any kind of loud amp, as there only rated round10-15 watts to match a lot of the applications they were used for back then.. no super big watt heads. so any big amp will just shred them..

 

[jh45gun]

If you can get enough of these old speakers for free and depending on brand you can sell them at the local music shop for enough to get heavy duty speakers for a loud amp or head. I sold two Jensen Organ pulls 15 inch ones for a hundred dollar bill at the local Music Go Round. No I did not invest in speakers but I did get a hard shell case for my Peavey Reactor and a heavy Music stand and some strings and a feed back buster for my acoustic.

 

[3 Chord]

Sometimes we were better off before the internet. Now people will be driving up the prices of these old speakers too!

 

[Drak]

I found a bunch of old CTS 10" alnicos on eBay a few years ago, they look almost identical to the CTS alnicos in Super Reverbs.

I'm sure it was an organ pull, I think there were 8 in the auction.
Real cheap too.

Haven't stuck 'em in a cab just yet, but I'm anticipating that good CTS breakup.

They're 16 ohms each, so a pair would be 8 ohms, and a quad will be 4 ohms, how perfect is THAT?

I'll have to post a pic of them.