vickers hardness testing and nickel silver fretwire and work hardening cheap fretwire to increase its durability and hardness.

[Englishhobbymaker]

I live in europe and over here the price of branded fretwire has increased I believe by around 50 - 80% over the last 4 years.

Sintoms is our main manufacturer and the supplier Madinter are always sold out of their 18% NS half kilo wire past years.....

If you buy from stew mac their nickel silver pound tubes the import tax is pretty steep and the price is way higher now..

I am thinking to try buy some different bulk chinese fretwire samples and do a vickers hardness test on them comparing them to the good branded 18% wire...

One luthier told me you can work harden the wire further by running it through the fret bender a few times ...

I have work hardened metals before with hammers and understand the concept.... In theory if you held the fret in a solid vice with a fret slot gap for it to seat in and then hit it with a heavy nylon mallet or brass mallet you should be able to work harden it with out completely deforming it and denting it. You can then after wards run it through the fret wire bender to further work harden it and also get the needed radius .

He also said listen and feel the snap when you cut it with your fret snippers... if it resists alot and cuts with a high tension snap it is harder... if its pot metal cheap cra p it will just cut through no snap or little in comparison.

Do I just have to suck it up and buy the expensive nickel silver fret wire , or has anyone found a good non pot metal chinese seller who sells in bulk many sizes ?

thanks

 

[Englishhobbymaker]

I recently built a telecaster and put cheap brass frets in the fingerboard ... i researched after and found that brass is much softer than nickel silver....

The frets played really really nicely I gave them a detailed dressing.... they have worn evenly all over the neck as I play all around the neck ... they now need a crown and polish and maybe just a few areas leveling with fret kisser...

So i am trying to get my head around this ... I suppose its not worth it in the long run having to dress the necks many times but at the same time I like the feeling to play classic rock and blues on nickel silver frets / softer brass frets. I feel the tones warmer and the fret also get enough clear note engagement with less finger pressure than stainless steel needs. to me it is a subtle but big difference.

(the above is making me think to bite the bullet and order a big kilo roll or two of cheaper chinese fret wire.... in the UK you can get chinese fret wire 3x or so cheaper than the branded... maybe 4x cheaper...

please advise

 

[Boreas]

No right or wrong answer here. All depends on how many fret jobs you do and your tolerance for material that may be a compromise. If buying quality parts/materials for my primary pleasure in life is too dear, then I have to compromise somewhere. But when it comes right down to it, the difference usually amounts to a few trips to Starbux and perspective is restored.

 

[old wrench]

You can definitely work-harden fret wire by running it through a fret-radiusing gizmo

It works with either nickel-silver or stainless steel fret wire

I've learned to try and get my radius correct on the first pass through the fret radius gizmo whenever possible, especially with stainless

The more times you run it through the gizmo the stiffer and springier it gets - especially if you vary the radius

Stainless is already pretty hard in its fully annealed state - if you work it too much, it gets very springy, which can lead to seating problems - it may want to spring up instead of laying down and seating correctly

The same thing can happen with nickel-silver


I'm sure there are other not-name brand fret wire suppliers that have good quality 18% nickel-silver wire besides the major suppliers - I stick with Jescar brand for stainless and nickel-silver, and I recently bought a supply of StewMac EVO wire

I don't mind paying a little more for quality wire

I've also used Sintoms wire which is good quality stuff too - it's made in Belarus - I recently used up the last of my Sintoms wire and with the situation in Belarus/Ukraine/Russia I can imagine there being supply chain issues

Dunlop makes good quality wire too


I put a lot of effort into doing a fret job - and it's going to be pretty much the same level of effort whether I use nickel-silver or stainless or even brass

I want my fret jobs to last as long as possible - that's why I use stainless whenever I can

.

 

[schmee]

I'm guessing .....but I imagine that SS fretwire is harder than the Nickle Silver if hardness is your criteria maybe buy that..
I doubt you will get much hardness improvement running wire through the fret bender, It's too flat a radius.
Some brass and bronze alloys are quite hard. I bought some Bronze flat bar once for a sailboat use, it was 1/4 hard, and man, worse to bend than steel!

 

[Freeman Keller]

I have seen a hardness test of fretwire, I believe it might have been in the publication of the Guild of American Luthiers, I'll see if I can find it.

For me nickel silver is hard enough and wears well, if someone wants stainless or Evo I'll put it on but all my guitars have standard wire. If there is a difference in sound I sure don't hear it. I haven't paid any attention to price trends - I need a couple of stick of wire, I buy enough for several guitars and refrets. I use mostly good old SM 0148 but I keep a few other sizes in stock for refrets. I've also done a few mandolins and one guitar with bar fret.

I radius all my frets with a standard gizmo - first a home made one, now the SM version. It works well, I don't notice any change in the wire.

 

[chris m.]

I've never replaced frets. I can do a level and crown, but when it comes time to replace them I'll have a good luthier do it.

If a luthier tells me that fret materials cost more nowadays and so he's going to have to charge me a little more, I wouldn't even blink.
Most of the cost is for the labor, anyway.

If it's for re-fretting your own guitars and on your own dime I would still say buy whatever you like best, even if you have to pay more, because re-fretting is an awful lot of work. I do understand the point that it might be possible to harden up a softer, cheaper fret so that it works as well as a harder, more expensive fret. If it is a quick and easy thing to do then maybe it's a good idea, but if it adds significant time I would ask what's more valuable to you-- your time, or just a little more money? I've had plenty of times in my life when I tried to go the cheaper route and ended up burning up a lot more hours of my life. You can get back money, but you can't get back time....

 

[philosofriend]

Every time you file or replace the frets on your own guitar it will go faster and you will do a better job. Also, even though the softer wire will wear faster, it will also be less work to crown the frets. Getting the shape of the crown on all the frets the same has a lot to do with getting an equal tone all over the board. There is not one best crown shape, you just want them the same as each other.
These are arguments in favor of the cheaper wire.

 

[RolandG]

I used to use Jescar EVO Gold. No one has any stock. According the Reddit the alloy is no longer being made, and I’m looking for an alternative. Someone recommended phosphor bronze https://www.btnmusic.co.uk/product/hosco-guitar-fretwire-single-50cm-strips/

 

[Pcs264]

If it's my guitar, it had better come back from the shop with nickel silver frets.

 

[Freeman Keller]

I knew I had seen something about vickers hardness testing of fretwire, it was right here at good old TDPRI

Fret hardness comparing way

Hello everyone, I used different nickel silver frets of different brands until today. Anyone had a enough hardness for me. I still have many different brand frets (all of them called nickel silver) and i just want to compare them as hardness. Actually, i just want to know which one is harder...

www.tdpri.com

 

[FuncleManson]

I live in europe and over here the price of branded fretwire has increased I believe by around 50 - 80% over the last 4 years.

Sintoms is our main manufacturer and the supplier Madinter are always sold out of their 18% NS half kilo wire past years.....

If you buy from stew mac their nickel silver pound tubes the import tax is pretty steep and the price is way higher now..

I am thinking to try buy some different bulk chinese fretwire samples and do a vickers hardness test on them comparing them to the good branded 18% wire...

One luthier told me you can work harden the wire further by running it through the fret bender a few times ...

I have work hardened metals before with hammers and understand the concept.... In theory if you held the fret in a solid vice with a fret slot gap for it to seat in and then hit it with a heavy nylon mallet or brass mallet you should be able to work harden it with out completely deforming it and denting it. You can then after wards run it through the fret wire bender to further work harden it and also get the needed radius .

He also said listen and feel the snap when you cut it with your fret snippers... if it resists alot and cuts with a high tension snap it is harder... if its pot metal cheap cra p it will just cut through no snap or little in comparison.

Do I just have to suck it up and buy the expensive nickel silver fret wire , or has anyone found a good non pot metal chinese seller who sells in bulk many sizes ?

thanks

Sintoms Nickel Silver Extra Hard 18% NS - .118"(3mm)x.058"(1.47mm) - Philadelphia Luthier Tools & Supplies, LLC

Sintoms Nickel Silver Extra Hard Fretwire - .118"(3mm)x.058"(1.47mm)

www.philadelphialuthiertools.com

Being in Europe, you might get pounded on shipping though, IDK.

 

[RolandG]

Being in Europe, you might get pounded on shipping though, IDK.

.. or not: https://tonetechpro.com/en/guitar-fret-wire/sintoms-fretwire.html

 

[tele_savales]

If you buy from stew mac

Yeah. Don't. Unless you simply have to have that one of a kind tool.
Did some fretwork levelling on a found bass, and considered doing a full refret to work on my skills and SMs prices were, as usual, astronomical compared to everyone else.