Mr. Sparkle
Tele-Afflicted
Is reverb the only difference?
Thanks.
Thanks.
Vibroverb vs. Pro
- Thread starter Mr. Sparkle
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Mr. Sparkle
Tele-Afflicted
Thanks. Yes, I'm talking BF. I found a nice '64 BF Pro that is coming in at $3k less than a Verb.
Tim Swartz
Friend of Leo's
The inflated price of the Vibroturd is due to the SRV factor. Prior to the SRV factor (BTW, his were beefed up with heavier speakers and upgraded OT) these would have remained the least desirable of all BF Fender Reverb combos, which is what they were prior to the SRV factor. The reason these amps are rare is because they only made them for a short time. The reason they only made them for a short time is because they didn't sell. The reason they didn't sell is because they didn't sound all that great (put one next to a Super Reverb and the deficiencies become blatently apparent).
Think of the Pro as Tremolux in a 1x15 cab.
Think of the Pro as Tremolux in a 1x15 cab.
So, you've got a straight Pro (circuit AA763), not the Pro-Reverb (AB763).
Yes, it's very close to a BF Vibroverb without reverb. It has the same tranformers as well as very similar components and circuitry. The price difference is entirely due to the collectibility factor. It just depends on what you want, how you intend to use it, and how much money you have.
As with any vintage amp, however, be sure to check it/them out in detail or have someone extremely familiar with the amps do so for you. The price/value is entirely dependent on the condition and originality of the amp.
Yes, it's very close to a BF Vibroverb without reverb. It has the same tranformers as well as very similar components and circuitry. The price difference is entirely due to the collectibility factor. It just depends on what you want, how you intend to use it, and how much money you have.
As with any vintage amp, however, be sure to check it/them out in detail or have someone extremely familiar with the amps do so for you. The price/value is entirely dependent on the condition and originality of the amp.
Mr. Sparkle
Tele-Afflicted
I'm starting to get it....
Thanks to both of you; this is enlightening.
My basic motivation is that I want a 15" speaker amplifier. I like the full sound, with nice lows and highs. I know some amps with 10's or 12' might sound as good or better, but I'm looking for the unique 15" sound.
So in my search I've looked at a Vibrasonic, a few Pros, the Vibroverb Custom reissue and a Music Man HD65 115. I liked the Vibrasonic, which was a '60 but had non-orig speaker and cab. I got the price down to $1050, but still had a hard time shelling out for non-orig cab. It seems that Pros are going for $1200-$1500 regardless of Tweed, Brown or Black. If that's the case, which to go for? I've only heard the Black and I liked it. I know of a Black here in town that is original except for tubes and a couple caps, asking price $1400.
I've never heard a Tweed with a 15". I wonder if these are as good as others say or if it is the Tweed mystique. I tried the Vibroverb Custom reissue and didn't really like it. I also tried a the Music Man, which seemed brittle. However, I could probably pick this one up for $350 (does have broken reverb). My favorite so far was that Vibrasonic that had the non-orig cab. I liked it a lot , but I feel foolish paying out for someone's project amp.
What do you guys think?
Thanks to both of you; this is enlightening.
My basic motivation is that I want a 15" speaker amplifier. I like the full sound, with nice lows and highs. I know some amps with 10's or 12' might sound as good or better, but I'm looking for the unique 15" sound.
So in my search I've looked at a Vibrasonic, a few Pros, the Vibroverb Custom reissue and a Music Man HD65 115. I liked the Vibrasonic, which was a '60 but had non-orig speaker and cab. I got the price down to $1050, but still had a hard time shelling out for non-orig cab. It seems that Pros are going for $1200-$1500 regardless of Tweed, Brown or Black. If that's the case, which to go for? I've only heard the Black and I liked it. I know of a Black here in town that is original except for tubes and a couple caps, asking price $1400.
I've never heard a Tweed with a 15". I wonder if these are as good as others say or if it is the Tweed mystique. I tried the Vibroverb Custom reissue and didn't really like it. I also tried a the Music Man, which seemed brittle. However, I could probably pick this one up for $350 (does have broken reverb). My favorite so far was that Vibrasonic that had the non-orig cab. I liked it a lot , but I feel foolish paying out for someone's project amp.
What do you guys think?
Bob Arbogast
Tele-Afflicted
Just be sure you really like a 15!
I have tried repeatedly to like to a 1x15 amp. To this point, I have not succeeded. The issue for me has always been the same: contrary to expectations, the 1x15 format is anything but warm. It tends to exhibit an upper midrange spikiness that is impossible to tame (Beam Blockers, anyone?). I'll admit that I haven't tried every speaker out there, not by a long stretch. But I have used new Jensens (P15N, C15N, C15K), Weber Californias (ceramic, with and w/o aluminum dust cap), and an Eminence Big Ben. Each speaker had its own tonal signature, but they all had an upper-mid spikiness that I find harsh and offensive. I suppose the Cali's exhibited this less than the others, but not enough for me to say, "Ah, this is it at last!" At any rate, I find a single 12 and certainly multiple 12's or 10's to be warmer than a single 15.
For reference, these speakers were connected to BF and Brown circuits.
YMMV, of course.
Bob Arbogast
I have tried repeatedly to like to a 1x15 amp. To this point, I have not succeeded. The issue for me has always been the same: contrary to expectations, the 1x15 format is anything but warm. It tends to exhibit an upper midrange spikiness that is impossible to tame (Beam Blockers, anyone?). I'll admit that I haven't tried every speaker out there, not by a long stretch. But I have used new Jensens (P15N, C15N, C15K), Weber Californias (ceramic, with and w/o aluminum dust cap), and an Eminence Big Ben. Each speaker had its own tonal signature, but they all had an upper-mid spikiness that I find harsh and offensive. I suppose the Cali's exhibited this less than the others, but not enough for me to say, "Ah, this is it at last!" At any rate, I find a single 12 and certainly multiple 12's or 10's to be warmer than a single 15.
For reference, these speakers were connected to BF and Brown circuits.
YMMV, of course.
Bob Arbogast
Tim Swartz
Friend of Leo's
I'd put a tweed Pro or Gibson GA77 ('50s) on the short list... Unless you want pristine clean as both of these amps give up a fair amount of hair when pushed. Stock speaker in both amps is a P15N.
If you want clean, buy (or build) a VibroClone, which is a term I believe John Stokes (Tremo) coined for a Bandmaster Reverb chassis in a 1x15 cab. Typical configuration is a Twin Reverb OT coupled to a JBL D130 speaker.... IOW a Vibroverb the way it should have been made.
If you want clean, buy (or build) a VibroClone, which is a term I believe John Stokes (Tremo) coined for a Bandmaster Reverb chassis in a 1x15 cab. Typical configuration is a Twin Reverb OT coupled to a JBL D130 speaker.... IOW a Vibroverb the way it should have been made.
jumpnblues
Friend of Leo's
Boy, you are faced with a difficult decision. The basic differences in tone between tweed 15" amps and blackface 15" amps are pretty much the same as those between other tweed and blackface amps. It's been a long time since I played through a blackface 15" amp so it's kinda' hard for me to remember exactly what it sounded like, but I remember it sounded big, bright, and clean.
I currently own a Victoria Tweed 35115T Pro with a Weber P15N (15A150) and for me it's just the right, well...everything. It's just the right size and weight (about 45 lbs), about the right power (35 watts) and volume for most any small to medium venue (will easily do large venues if miced), about the right "clean-ness to edgey-ness ratio", about the right amount of headroom before breakup, about the right balance between harmonically drenched highs, punchy and slightly aggressive mids, and big but tight bottom. It produced a little more bottom than my 2x12" Dr.Z MAZ 38 Sr. NR combo and almost as much as my 40 watt Allen Encore head with 4x10" open back cab (my main Strat amp).
My Vicky Pro is my main Tele amp (and my main amp), but a Strat through that Allen or Dr.Z is unbelievably sweet, but that's another post altogether.
Anyway, I've been pretty much a no pedals man, but I discovered that a Banzai Cold Fusion with just a little bit of boost brings a certain sweetness out in the high end I can't quite get without it. So the secret's out...that's my magical combination. You'll have to use a trem and/or reverb pedal or tank as necessary. I use a Holy Grail and Demeter Tremulator. It also helps to have a light, resonant, swampash USACG Tele with an A&F Blackguard pu in the bridge and Lollar special wind in the neck.
But as far as tweed vs blackface 15" amps that's my perspective. I've had this same combination for 3 years now and I have no desire whatsoever to change. That's probably a record for me, as I had a tendancy to change guitars and amps as much as a model changes underware. However, I been Dr.Z-less for about a year...a condition that makes me very uncomfortable. I've owned 4 different models and I find myself really missing my MAZ 18 Jr. I think there is going to be a MAZ 18 Jr. NR head in my future. I'll run it through my Allen 4x10" cab with my Encore. Now let's see...where did I put that amp switching box?
I currently own a Victoria Tweed 35115T Pro with a Weber P15N (15A150) and for me it's just the right, well...everything. It's just the right size and weight (about 45 lbs), about the right power (35 watts) and volume for most any small to medium venue (will easily do large venues if miced), about the right "clean-ness to edgey-ness ratio", about the right amount of headroom before breakup, about the right balance between harmonically drenched highs, punchy and slightly aggressive mids, and big but tight bottom. It produced a little more bottom than my 2x12" Dr.Z MAZ 38 Sr. NR combo and almost as much as my 40 watt Allen Encore head with 4x10" open back cab (my main Strat amp).
My Vicky Pro is my main Tele amp (and my main amp), but a Strat through that Allen or Dr.Z is unbelievably sweet, but that's another post altogether.
Anyway, I've been pretty much a no pedals man, but I discovered that a Banzai Cold Fusion with just a little bit of boost brings a certain sweetness out in the high end I can't quite get without it. So the secret's out...that's my magical combination. You'll have to use a trem and/or reverb pedal or tank as necessary. I use a Holy Grail and Demeter Tremulator. It also helps to have a light, resonant, swampash USACG Tele with an A&F Blackguard pu in the bridge and Lollar special wind in the neck.
But as far as tweed vs blackface 15" amps that's my perspective. I've had this same combination for 3 years now and I have no desire whatsoever to change. That's probably a record for me, as I had a tendancy to change guitars and amps as much as a model changes underware. However, I been Dr.Z-less for about a year...a condition that makes me very uncomfortable. I've owned 4 different models and I find myself really missing my MAZ 18 Jr. I think there is going to be a MAZ 18 Jr. NR head in my future. I'll run it through my Allen 4x10" cab with my Encore. Now let's see...where did I put that amp switching box?
The Vibrasonic price does seem high.
I can't go into detail now, but the cheapest, best amp to get, if you can find one, just might be a Fender 75 with a 15" speaker. They are a bit heavy, though.
Many/most of the 75's came with 12's, but some do have 15's. They're hard to find, but usually inexpensive (read, woefully underpriced), and less than $700. The main reason is that the amp controls are very sensitive, and people who don't take the time to get familiar with them think there's a problem with the amp. There isn't, but it ruins the amp's reputation. The 75's also don't work well with wornout tubes, and that's a charactistic of cheap amps- they don't get retubed much.
Set clean (as opposed to the myriad drive possibilities) and run on Low Power, it works and sounds like a BF Vibroverb. Some of the 75's came with EV speakers that are very decent.
There should indeed be a bigger price spread in the Pro's you mentioned. Otherwise, I'd opt for the tweed. They're great blues amps, but beyond that it's subjective. The selection also really depends on how you plan on using it. Gigging with an original vintage amp can reduce its value significantly.
I can't say that 15's in general have any particular tone coloration. They do tend to share a somewhat unique mid-range bark, which can be useful sometimes. That's probably the other side of the upper-mid harshness cited above.
They lack some of the crispness of small speakers, but they sometimes, with some players, have a fatness smaller ones lack. Unlike some smaller speakers, they also seem to stamp their sound on an amp rather than vice-versa. Perhaps, that's because they don't do the harmonic overtones that tend to differentiate sounds particularly well.
I can't go into detail now, but the cheapest, best amp to get, if you can find one, just might be a Fender 75 with a 15" speaker. They are a bit heavy, though.
Many/most of the 75's came with 12's, but some do have 15's. They're hard to find, but usually inexpensive (read, woefully underpriced), and less than $700. The main reason is that the amp controls are very sensitive, and people who don't take the time to get familiar with them think there's a problem with the amp. There isn't, but it ruins the amp's reputation. The 75's also don't work well with wornout tubes, and that's a charactistic of cheap amps- they don't get retubed much.
Set clean (as opposed to the myriad drive possibilities) and run on Low Power, it works and sounds like a BF Vibroverb. Some of the 75's came with EV speakers that are very decent.
There should indeed be a bigger price spread in the Pro's you mentioned. Otherwise, I'd opt for the tweed. They're great blues amps, but beyond that it's subjective. The selection also really depends on how you plan on using it. Gigging with an original vintage amp can reduce its value significantly.
I can't say that 15's in general have any particular tone coloration. They do tend to share a somewhat unique mid-range bark, which can be useful sometimes. That's probably the other side of the upper-mid harshness cited above.
They lack some of the crispness of small speakers, but they sometimes, with some players, have a fatness smaller ones lack. Unlike some smaller speakers, they also seem to stamp their sound on an amp rather than vice-versa. Perhaps, that's because they don't do the harmonic overtones that tend to differentiate sounds particularly well.
Mr. Sparkle
Tele-Afflicted
Thanks for the info. I'm not sure what I'm going to do here. As I mentioned, the Vibrasonic is a good sounding amp, but the Music Man is chep. I'm going out shopping today, and I'll let you guys know what happens. Again, thanks for the help.
