V Champ 6V6 - 6L6 swap...tried it ...Yee Hawww!

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by LPBlue, Sep 5, 2003.

  1. Stewart Ward

    Stewart Ward Banned

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    Under these conditions, a resistor will almost certainly go open, not short... likewise for the rectifiers. And if they did go short, then the fuses come to the rescue anyway!

    This has not been a serious problem for the many tens of thousands of Fender Twins, at el, that are out there in every day use.

    With respect... I fear, you may be 'stiring the livestock' on this point. There is far more chance of a valve rectifier or other valve failing, than a SS rectifier diode rated at many times more than the current required for a simple retrosaurus-thermionic!
     
  2. eugenedunn

    eugenedunn Friend of Leo's

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    Champ Output Transformer Upgrade

    So if the limited output transformer of a stock Champ or VibroChamp is keeping the amp from significantly increasing it's volume when driven with a 5881...... would upgrading the output transformer get me more volume?

    I'd like to try increasing the output of the Champ and run it side-by-side with my Princeton Reverb.

    I'm already digging the tone of the 5881 with the Weber WZ68 Copper Cap in this amp. It's slightly louder, but if a higher rated output transformer was used, the power tube could really open up. Right?

    Kind of like a single-ended 6L6 Super Champ. Another fantastic "grab-n-go" amp for jams.... I could run it into my 2x10 cabinet for even more volume.
     
  3. LPBlue

    LPBlue Tele-Holic

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    Holy shnikes:eek: ...I can't believe I started this thread five years ago and it came back to life! There will always be "FrankenChamps"...good on ya' guys.

    J.R.
     
  4. eugenedunn

    eugenedunn Friend of Leo's

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    LP Blue,

    I was searching for references to uses of 6L6 types in single ended amps, so I thought I'd revive this thread and see if I could get some more information from experienced people on the Forum.....

    In response to my recent discoveries about how the Weber Copper Cap can decrease the filament load and still provide enough power to the 6L6 to effect a positive change in tone.

    Everyone always comments that you'll never achieve appreciable increases in volume due to the puny output tranny..... so how about replacing it? They're not that expensive or hard to install.

    I was hoping someone would chime in with their experiences and suggestions of what transformer to get for this 6L6 application in a Champ chassis.
     
  5. eugenedunn

    eugenedunn Friend of Leo's

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    Ok gang,

    I got a great response from David Allen of Allen Amplification:

    http://www.allenamps.com/parts.php#transformers

    He said that his TO8C model is a direct drop-in upgrade with no modifications..... apparently, this would give me added output with my choice of 5881 tube.

    He also added that if I chose his TO11C model, I would have to mount that transformer in a slanted way to clear the cap can and power tube. But apparently that model would produce even more output and better overall frequency response (especially low end).

    I will probably consider the replacement of the bias resistor to a 5-watt 1000 ohm, as some folks have suggested.....
     
  6. nokaster

    nokaster Tele-Holic

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    i know this is an old threat, but it's great!
    i'm planning a champ build and was wondering if i'm correct when i say that it is possible to swap the 6V6 to 6L6/5881 on a tweed champ CLONE since the PT for clones works for the tweed, bf champ and for princetons.
    am i correct?

    which would be the "ideal" solution for rectification when using a 6L6 or 5881 in a tweed champ clone? which tube and/or which copper cap?

    thx!
     
  7. ThermionicScott

    ThermionicScott Poster Extraordinaire

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    Since everything is cathode-biased in a Champ (and replacement transformers like Weber's have a 3A filament winding), you can use whatever you want, really. "Sag" isn't a problem with class A designs, so it's all about the voltage you want. :cool:

    Good luck!
    - Scott
     
  8. nokaster

    nokaster Tele-Holic

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    thx scott!
     
  9. eugenedunn

    eugenedunn Friend of Leo's

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    With both the power and output trannys adequate to handle a 6L6-type, you should probably use a 5AR4/GZ34 tube rectifier or either the WZ34 or WZ68 Weber Copper Cap.

    I am using the "double-equivalent" GZ34 Copper cap, the WZ68 with my SF Champ running a JAN Phillips 5881. I think using the Copper Cap might be a hair safer than running the tube rectifier in a stock SF Champ. It's been running loud and fine, and I recently went through a whole band rehearsal just using that Champ dimed, with no meltdown.

    We don't really play that loud during practice, but our drummer only brings a snare and some cymbals. The bassist uses a 320-watt Eden combo and the other guitarist uses a 15-watt Blues Junior. Vocalist thru the PA. Me with the 'roided-out Champ (Weber 8F125 speaker can hang)
     
  10. ThermionicScott

    ThermionicScott Poster Extraordinaire

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    Why do you say that? A 5Y3 can supply all the current a single 6L6GC could want.

    - Scott
     
  11. MatchlessMan

    MatchlessMan Tele-Holic

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    ZOMBIE THREAD RESURRECTION

    I finally got around to experimenting with the valves in my Swart STR.

    First off, two 1976 Sylvania JAN 12AX7s in V1 an V2 - not a great difference (in fact possibly noisier than the stock JJs).

    Then I swapped out the existing EH 6V6 for a new Tung Sol. Again, not a huge difference - by the time I have replace the back panel, way too much time has gone by for a realistic AB test.

    Finally I pulled the 6V6 and installed a new Tung Sol 6L6 - now this I like! The Champ-style mid bias is toned down, there is more top and bottom available, and breakup happens much later on the volume control. It sounds far more Fendery to me, and better suited to my Strat, so the 6L6 stays.

    I have a Jensen P12R on back order - can't wait to hear how that sounds!
     
  12. Johnny Cache

    Johnny Cache Former Member

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    Be sure you don't over heat the Power Tranny. I've done this with Deluxe Reverbs allot gives it a tad more headroom, don't think it makes it much louder may increase the wattage a little if the bias is set right. Not sure about that, my DRRI has an upgraded PT (Hammond) and can handle the extra power needed for the job. However, I prefer the sound of the 6V6's so thats the way I like to run it.
     
  13. MatchlessMan

    MatchlessMan Tele-Holic

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    I checked with Swart by email. The STR is built to run 6V6 or 6L6. The swing card also mentions EL34, but the guy at Swart said they have had reports of EL34s taking out a resistor. The power transformer is huge considering it's a 5 watt amp, so no worries on that score.

    It's nice to have the option of quite different sounds from the one amp, although not exactly footswitchable!
     
  14. El Marin

    El Marin Tele-Afflicted

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    Hi
    I have done that as well. I have a Champ Clone with a oversized 18W Output trannie. Just made a switch with the 5 or 10 famous resistor and I can switch from 6V6 to 6L6.
    When using 6L6 I see that the performance is much better with a diodes rectifier.
    I can feel a big hump in the overall volume. Less overdrive. The tone with the 6V6 is amazing but a bit tight if playing with a hard drummer. Perfect for recording. Using 6L6 allowes me to use pedals and open the sound.

    Definitely is a mod to try
     
  15. MatchlessMan

    MatchlessMan Tele-Holic

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    Funny you should say that about pedals El Marin. The Swart does not get on well with my full gigging pedalboard, but it is great with my no.2 board:

    [​IMG]
     
  16. El Marin

    El Marin Tele-Afflicted

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    I mean, IMO, in the same amp, pedals work much better with 6L6 than with 6V6.

    In my experiece, pedals work better with a cleaner amp. My pedalboard is quite simple. Tuner-Ibanez Ts808 (basis crunch, always ON)-UK Marshall The Guv'nor (leads)-Rocktron Short-timer (rockabilly slapback echo)-Thundertomate Grandma's tremolo.
    When using 6L6 I go like that. When using 6V6 just use the TS808 for leads

    Re-velcro-ing the pedalboard after 15 years...

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2016
  17. valiant

    valiant Tele-Holic

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    Just read this zombie thread...interesting stuff.
    Observations....got a JJ 6v6 in a Valvetrain 5F2a Princeton and have heard it said that it's a kinda super 6v6 and it would be interesting to
    A/B it against a true NOS 6v6 if anyone has done such or whatever is considered the best new production 6v6's.
    Secondly have use of a Cornell Romany 1x10 which is a solid state rectified single ended 6L6 10 watt class A amplifier.
    Now the Valvetrain has a Weber AlNiCo SIG8s while the Cornell Romany has a Jensen Blue Label CH 10/70 ceramic.....generally
    the 6L6 has more bass and has more rounded sound....works real
    well with a USA Epiphone Riviera and USA Guild Starfire IV....but
    the 6v6 has a sparkle and detail just made for the Telecaster and a 52 Thinskin through a tweed Princeton sure is sweet.
    Finally on the recent solo album Keef Richards used three amps...
    a 5 watt 6v6 tweed Champ obviously and an old Watkins but also a tweed Harvard 1x10 only set up to run as a single ended 6L6 class A
    10 watt.....sounds like Keef just reinvented the Cornell Romany.
     
  18. leftcoastal

    leftcoastal TDPRI Member

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    Anyone else out there playing with a 6L6 or bigger OT in their silverface champs?
     
  19. muchxs

    muchxs Doctor of Teleocity

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    Big iron facilitates tube swapping. Stock iron doesn't.
     
  20. LPBlue

    LPBlue Tele-Holic

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    Wow! I just re-read this thread 13yrs after my OP and I stand by my self-quote. There will always be FrankenChamps...Fender or not!
     
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