Using the Ted Greene books....

[Wooly Fox]

I have two of Ted Greene's books (Chord Chemistry and Modern Chord Progressions) as recommended elsewhere on the forum a while ago.

I am trying to use the chord charts in Modern Chord Progressions but not seeing a lot of progress in the few months I have been trying it out.

I have been using a pick and couldn't work out how to finger the chords to mute the open A and D strings. I then read the introduction again and saw most of the charts are for finger picking!

So back to square one in practicing with fingers but it's getting easier. Any other ideas other than metronome study for getting the muscle memory in place to make the transitions smoother? I pretty much repeat the same lines over 30 minutes with a metronome until I get 3 rounds with few to no mistakes but sometimes it's impossible.

I used to play bass so the finger picking isn't too foreign but is there a decent exercise for getting your fingers to "sync" with your left hand?

Also should I ever strum these chords, sometimes the bar chords seem to imply they should be. Anyway, I'm learning a lot about harmony

 

[brookdalebill]

Ted’s books are daunting tomes!
He was light years ahead of most guitarists and educators, IMO.
I had Chord Chemistry in my youth, and dutifully consulted it.
I learned a lot, and found it helpful.
I am still fascinated with interesting and somewhat complex chords.
Ted was on another plane of existence.
You seem to be progressing well.

 

[klasaine]

The best way to learn the TG stuff is to apply it.

As quickly as possible, plug some of the progressions that you can play relatively well into songs you already know. Of course, these 'songs' will most likely be in the jazzier vein.

There are tons of I vi ii V and iii vi ii V progs in MCP (modern chord progressions). Just open up the 'Real Book' (if you have one) and do some substituting.

Don't worry about how long it takes or if you can only tackle a couple of things over (what may seem to be) a long time. These books were intended to be lifelong companions.

 

[klasaine]

As far as using a pick and 'strumming' or using your fingers ...
Whatever works for you in the particular application.
Ted would say, "be able to do both ... and in all 12 keys ".

*I studied with Ted on and off over a period of almost 30 years.
I have a series of YT vids demonstrating and deciphering some of his lessons.

 

[chulaivet1966]

I have two of Ted Greene's books (Chord Chemistry and Modern Chord Progressions) as recommended elsewhere on the forum a while ago.

Howdy Wooly....

I hear you.
I've had both of the books you mention for a long time.
They're quite involved and are overwhelming for the faint of heart.
As BDBill states.....'daunting'....which might be an understatement.
I revisit them on occasion....with underwhelming improvement, I must say.

I'm glad to see Ken (klasaine) chime in here.
He's a wealth of academic info.

Back to it....

 

[loopfinding]

The best way to learn the TG stuff is to apply it.

As quickly as possible, plug some of the progressions that you can play relatively well into songs you already know. Of course, these 'songs' will most likely be in the jazzier vein.

There are tons of I vi ii V and iii vi ii V progs in MCP (modern chord progressions). Just open up the 'Real Book' (if you have one) and do some substituting.

Don't worry about how long it takes or if you can only tackle a couple of things over (what may seem to be) a long time. These books were intended to be lifelong companions.

yeah, was going to say. just learning the chord shapes and storing them in a mental array is not going to really do much for you. it's more useful to use the book when you're working on a tune and ask "what do i really need here?" at different spots and look up some chords that work in the position you need.

taking that into account ("what do i need?") i find that one of the best ways to learn new chord shapes is not through comping but through arranging chord melodies. that way you get a better sense of what shapes do what with voice leading, and you can always discard or change upper and lower voices later to satisfy comping requirements.

 

[ASATKat]

I have two of Ted Greene's books (Chord Chemistry and Modern Chord Progressions) as recommended elsewhere on the forum a while ago.

I am trying to use the chord charts in Modern Chord Progressions but not seeing a lot of progress in the few months I have been trying it out.

I have been using a pick and couldn't work out how to finger the chords to mute the open A and D strings. I then read the introduction again and saw most of the charts are for finger picking!

So back to square one in practicing with fingers but it's getting easier. Any other ideas other than metronome study for getting the muscle memory in place to make the transitions smoother? I pretty much repeat the same lines over 30 minutes with a metronome until I get 3 rounds with few to no mistakes but sometimes it's impossible.

I used to play bass so the finger picking isn't too foreign but is there a decent exercise for getting your fingers to "sync" with your left hand?

Also should I ever strum these chords, sometimes the bar chords seem to imply they should be. Anyway, I'm learning a lot about harmony

A book like Chord Chemistry is best used to play chord melody Ted's way. In my opinion there are better books for people that want a great functional way to to play chord melody like how Julian Lage plays chord melody. For example 3 note chords peppered within single note playing. Playing in a full blown Ted Greene style doesn't work very well in a band situation. It can easily turn into overkill Imo.

 

[klasaine]

Playing in a full blown Ted Greene style doesn't work very well in a band situation. It can easily turn into overkill Imo.

It can ... if you apply it in an unmusical way.
Ted would be the first to tell you that "everything is situational".

Plenty of less dense voicings in those books. There's a ton of info in the TG tomes and it's easy to miss a lot of what he says and implies. In MCP in particular, most of the first half of the book is 4 note voicings with the top note being a melody note, usually followed by an 'X' which is another melody note. So essentially a 3-note chord with a melody note on top and an option as to where it may move.
In CC (chord chemistry), section 13 is all about voice-leading with 4-note chords.

 

[ASATKat]

It can ... if you apply it in an unmusical way.
Ted would be the first to tell you that "everything is situational".

Plenty of less dense voicings in those books. There's a ton of info in the TG tomes and it's easy to miss a lot of what he says and implies. In MCP in particular, most of the first half of the book is 4 note voicings with the top note being a melody note, usually followed by an 'X' which is another melody note. So essentially a 3-note chord with a melody note on top and an option as to where it may move.
In CC (chord chemistry), section 13 is all about voice-leading with 4-note chords.

I've played through the 4 voice chords, some of the closed voices in those chords are too much for my frail hand and I had a few episodes of hurting things, 25 years ago I called these stretchy chords tendinitis chords. I had to find another way to access those tones and often meant sacrificing one note the better note. My main influence was Bill Frisell as you probably know. And Bucky Pizzarell for his three note chord book. Playing partial chords let me play closed voice chords just like Ted, just not in his impossible fingering ways.
Drop2 omit 4 is one of my favorite voicings to play around in , great access to all notes when used as a horizotal voicing. Much closer to the Friz and Hall school of non tendinitis chords. And I love Mr Greene he was one of a kind. Sad, he should still be playing.

 

[Jeremy_Green]

Ted Greene‘s books are a totally different thing. I find his stuff very similar to Wayne Krantz’s “an improvisers OS” book in that there is really almost no direction given. It’s up to you to be creative and try to figure out what the lesson is.

The lessons and the teaching method is amazing, it’s just very different, yet very deep.

It’s all about playing the examples.

 

[klasaine]

With 'Chord Chemistry' in particular, read the chapters that pre and proceed the actual chord lexicon. That's where the gold lies.

 

[Liarspoker]

Hey,

I joined tdpri today and my first post ( this is my second post) was actually talking about Ted Greene and Modern Chord Progressions. I also included a video of me playing the first few examples in the book.
I play fingerstyle and if you can find the video you'll see and hear that I use both block chords and arpeggios to play the progressions.
I'd love to see and hear other people playing the progressions.

 

[klasaine]

I have a bunch of TG example vids ...

 

[ASATKat]

I have two of Ted Greene's books (Chord Chemistry and Modern Chord Progressions) as recommended elsewhere on the forum a while ago.

I am trying to use the chord charts in Modern Chord Progressions but not seeing a lot of progress in the few months I have been trying it out.

I have been using a pick and couldn't work out how to finger the chords to mute the open A and D strings. I then read the introduction again and saw most of the charts are for finger picking!

So back to square one in practicing with fingers but it's getting easier. Any other ideas other than metronome study for getting the muscle memory in place to make the transitions smoother? I pretty much repeat the same lines over 30 minutes with a metronome until I get 3 rounds with few to no mistakes but sometimes it's impossible.

I used to play bass so the finger picking isn't too foreign but is there a decent exercise for getting your fingers to "sync" with your left hand?

Also should I ever strum these chords, sometimes the bar chords seem to imply they should be. Anyway, I'm learning a lot about harmony

There are other players that have great solo guitar that is way more "economical". That's been my experience, back in the late 80s I got both of his popular books. Chord Chemistry is basically just static chords and MCP is those chords used in progressions, which turns out to be more useful.

The problem was too many tendinitis chords, and I could never get it smooth like Ted. Many nights I slept with an isolation brace and I lived in fear of something bad and permanent thanks to Ted, Lenny, Howard Roberts, and more. But Bill played in a different way that brilliantly uses economy, almost no block chords. Jim Hall was new to Barney, and Joe, Jim brought the beginnings of the modern harmony of today. From Pat to Sco to Frisell, these guys have expanded and kept Jim alive in his approach. I've discovered I could do this economic stuff, couldn't do the tendinitis thing.

Because of this more economic approach, I haven't touched Ted's books for 27 yrs. In the end I still have "on the edge" moments playing simply. Mick Goodrick is the guru that wrote the book on highly advanced economic chord playing and voice leading. Not much tendinitis chords.

Ted's books are in great shape and would I even consider selling them. 1st Ed. Rare.