Using Studio Compressors LIVE For Guitar

Discussion in 'The Stomp Box' started by mabley123, Sep 3, 2014.

  1. luckett

    luckett Banned

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    The best way to set this up is to get a custom 48 channel Neve console with stomp switching. You could then run your studio compressors and 30+ Moogs in the channel loops and you'd only have to have the Neve console on your pedalboad.
     
  2. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I guess I may have misunderstood the "live" angle. If I'm reading correctly OP wants it for live playing at home. I guess my suggestion would be to find a competent local sound guy. One who does live music and who records. It'll be a piece of case for him or her to tell you what will and won't work and how to route it. I doubt the consulting/set-up fee would be prohibitive, based on OP's comment.
     
  3. Meshgearfox

    Meshgearfox Tele-Meister

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    Yes.

    but working "correctly" when inserted in the guitars signal chain will yield different results than you would get from them if they were used in their more traditional role as tracking and mix down compressors. I'm not saying that is a bad thing, it could sound glorious.

    the mooger foogers handle line level signals well so i don't see any problems there. your other guitar pedals may not. if i were attempting this sort of set up i would probably start with something like

    guitar->
    traditional dirt pedals->
    MZPIP( or whatever instrument to line level solution you prefer)->
    chandler side 1->
    la-2a->
    mooger fooger(s)->
    chandler side 2->
    MZPIP or other re-amp box (optional)->
    guitar amp
     
  4. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    A question to the crowd as much as to the OP. Aren't studio compressors used in part BECAUSE you are in a recording context? I.e., because you are trying to avoid a stale sound, to capture some of the "room life" and excitement of live music in a non-live medium, to achieve separation of instruments in the mix while maintaining balance, etc.? I guess I just wonder what if anything is to be gained by introducing that complexity into a live context, where those concerns aren't an issue.

    Please note OP, I'm not criticizing you. It just opens up an interesting, I don't know, conceptual/framework question. I like a very simple rig and try to get by with as few pedals as possible. I tend to think that sounds best. But that's just me. Obviously others (you, some guy named Gilmour) manage and enjoy a more complex signal. Hard to argue with Gilmour's lead tone on Comfortably Numb, which from what I read went through just about every stomp, rack and post-board gizmo then in existence!
     
  5. simonsp

    simonsp Friend of Leo's

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  6. Snowwizard

    Snowwizard Tele-Holic

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    Check out the Origin Effects Cali 76 series. It's a 1176 in a box. The effectrode compressor is based on the LA2
     
  7. Paul in Colorado

    Paul in Colorado Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Stick one in the insert of the guitar channel of your PA mixer and let the sound guy deal with it.
     
  8. mabley123

    mabley123 Friend of Leo's

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    The Effectrode looks very nice. Im also familiar with subminature tubes as my friends Dana and Richie Hall of Hallamplification.com make an amp called Lil Devil that uses subminature tubes and they are very nice and durable tubes. The 1's they use were for guided missle systems.

    Yes I want to at first have these rigged up at home for experimentation. But would also like to use them live in the future. You have to practice and learn how to use everything before you can go live right ??

    Im basically trying to create a Moog Synth with all the Moog stuff and then add high quality compression/limiting and I also want to use these as pedals unto themselves.

    I like as many pedals as I can get. I want to create more than just regular guitar sounds.

    And as I said I don't need to use this stuff to make other peoples music. I want it for my own use and experimentation.

    I also eventually want a Moog Guitar. I also have a EHX HOG2 and the Roland GR-55 Guitar Synth - With GK-3 Pickup.

    Something else The Roger Mayer Compressor/Limiter I mentioned earlier was used in
    Record Plant, Hit Factory, Electric Lady, Atlantic Records, Elektra Records, Columbia Records, A&R Studios.

    It CAN be used with Guitar.

    Dual Operation Modes:
    +4dBV and -10dBV modes are accessed through two sets of sockets.

    Instrument Friendly:
    The -10dBV mode input is high impedance that enables a guitar or other instrument to be plugged straight into the RM 58 without the need for a buffer. It will not tone suck the pickups and is very quiet and transparent. The -10dBV output will interface correctly with an amplifier or an input to a recording device. This extends the use to live shows using the RM 58 into an amplifier or to the PA system. You can use the +4dBV output to interface the instrument with a professional level recording studio recording system.


    So I figured with the right hookups the LA 2A and Chandler or 1176LN would also be compatable.


















    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  9. BassBoss

    BassBoss TDPRI Member

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    I think this is a pretty terrible idea, you don't need 6K worth of compressors for a guitar signal, in fact the guitar might easily sound worse with the comps. Live performances usually need some dynamics since there necessarily aren't the usual 1000 tracks playing at the same time. Besides it's not like there is too much dynamics left after all the drive and clipping, and the comps will amplify the noise as well when you are not playing.

    I would get the LA2A if you want a bit more punch. 1176 is better for sustain and evenness because of the much faster attack time. Neither of the comps are really twekable which can be a problem. Yeah I would definitely not recommend this, it really is a bad idea IMHO. Your guitar amps and the PA will catch any peaks so that is not necessary either.
     
  10. Modman68

    Modman68 Tele-Holic

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    I have a sneaking suspicion that what we call "high quality" compression may be subjective and highly dependent on how/where it is utilized.

    I have an expensive, very well constructed chefs knife. It is the perfect thing for slicing an onion. It behaves very poorly if utilized as a paring knife for slicing a clove of garlic.
     
  11. simonsp

    simonsp Friend of Leo's

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    There's two things that all the items you are considering have in common. They are incredibly complex and they are incredibly expensive. Any possibility that you are getting form and function confused here? Or perhaps you enjoy surrounding yourself with equipment of this nature and the means is the end.

    Nothing wrong with that and it may lead you to some interesting and unexpected sonic conclusions, but compression is mostly a pretty utilitarian kind of a technology and with the type of equipment that you are considering it is as much about meeting broadcast standards as any artistic notions.

    Either way I'm sure that you'll have lots of fun with it and at the end of the day that's why we're here, no?

    science_sm.jpg
     
  12. pasquale

    pasquale Tele-Meister

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    IMG_20140906_204548.jpg




    Well by total coincidence my buddy is playing keys at Webster Hall tonight and is plugging the keyboard directly into a Federal AM864 limiter clone I built him into the PA. No amp but studio compression on stage.
     
  13. mabley123

    mabley123 Friend of Leo's

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    Cool. Let us know how it works out..

    Also nobody said anything about the.... Roger Mayer Studio Compressor/Limiter being Guitar Friendly ??????

    Instrument Friendly:
    The -10dBV mode input is high impedance that enables a guitar or other instrument to be plugged straight into the RM 58 without the need for a buffer. It will not tone suck the pickups and is very quiet and transparent. The -10dBV output will interface correctly with an amplifier or an input to a recording device. This extends the use to live shows using the RM 58 into an amplifier or to the PA system. You can use the +4dBV output to interface the instrument with a professional level recording studio recording system





    History
    The RM 58 is still regarded today by many leading producers as a Holy Grail piece of vintage analogue equipment and was first manufactured in New York by Roger Mayer in 1970. It was an evolution from the RM 57 Limiter with the RM 58 providing greater headroom and more user friendly front panel controls. The audio circuit path was of a Class A discrete design only using the best available components and featured a proprietary FET gain reduction circuit. The RM 58 quickly became popular with all the top studios in the US including: Record Plant, Hit Factory, Electric Lady, Atlantic Records, Elektra Records, Columbia Records, A&R Studios. It was also used to master records with special 4 channels versions for the cutting rooms of many leading record labels. It has been used on so many famous records I would not know where to begin. Technically the design was very advanced for it's time and today it's performance still compares very favourably to newer designs. The circuit path is extremely clean and transparent with an extended frequency response to 100Khz. The output is Class A unbalanced with a very low output impedance and we have never found any need to balance the output as the low impedance ensures a hum free interface. This method together with a Class A circuit audio path provides the ultimate transparency for the audio. It is the way the unit controls the peaks that makes this unit different from others and remains very natural sounding even with large amounts of gain reduction.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  14. telecat33511

    telecat33511 Tele-Holic

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    What kind of gigs?
    My wampler Ego comp rules gigs where and when I need it
    I get very little for gigs
    Your gigs must bring in beaucoup bux, no ?
     
  15. pasquale

    pasquale Tele-Meister

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    For the cost of that rm57 pedal one could buy a nicely built 1176 clone with.money to spare. Does look nice though. As far as pedals the engineer's thumb is very well regarded.
     
  16. mabley123

    mabley123 Friend of Leo's

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    I talked to a guy on another forum that uses the Full Blown LA 2A compressor for his guitar live onstage. And has for some years.

    He uses a Creation Audio Labs MW1 to convert the signal. It aint cheap either. This is 1 of the best units for keeping everything quiet compared t o many other units.

    Like I said too. This is something maybe next year. Its not like I have all the money to just go out and buy all this stuff.

    I first have to Research and see if it can even work correctly right ?

    At this stage its just an Idea.

    But now the Idea has been Confirmed that it Does work and works Really Well. Great. Better than a Stomp version.

    Instrument-level to balanced line-level DI & reverse DI interface



    Creation Audio Labs MW1

    Why use a standard DI box which knocks your signal down to mic level, only to ride in the noise floor then be gained back up (along with that noise floor) by a mic pre? You can simply use the MW1 to boost your signal directly to line level and avoid all that noise. The cleanest pathway for tracking in the studio and great live as a bass or acoustic DI box. Combined with a great sounding reverse DI for Real-Amp™ re-recording or composite layering with additional amplifiers.



    Features

    •Instrument to line-level transparent, transformerless DI for clean tracking.


    •Line to instrument-level reamp reverse DI for re-recording various amps.


    •Variable input and output impedance to match your original signal.


    •Amplifier send with up to 30dB of transparent clean boost.


    •Tuner out with mute function for silent tuning or changing instruments.


    •Polarity-reverse and ground-lift switches for common interfacing needs.


    •Universal international power 85 to 260VAC 50 or 60Hz


    Uses

    •Make clean safety tracks of every take for more options when mixing.


    •Reverse DI / reamp any take through various amplifiers or FX pedals.


    •Insert line level studio gear into your FX pedal chain.


    •Insert FX pedal chains into you studio signal chain.


    •Use exaggerated impedance settings to find new sounds.


    •Double-track reamplification*.


    •Use your imagination to discover new uses.




    Developed in cooperation with Michael Wagener, MW1 Studio Tool Real-Amping™ involves capturing clean safety tracks while recording, then re-recording those tracks through various amps and effects for composite layering or to replace the original amplifiers and effects if they no longer fit the mix. Variable input and output impedance allow you to match the original tone or find new and better tones. Use your favorite studio compressors, EQs, etc. as effects in your pedal chain or use stomp boxes as effects in your mix
    [​IMG]
     
  17. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    As many have said, it still seems like a classic square peg/round hole scenario. But if it makes you happy and works for you, rock on! And let us know how it goes.
     
  18. telecat33511

    telecat33511 Tele-Holic

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    the Bogner lyndhurst - coming soon
    THere's the answer
    at 01:28
     
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