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USA: status of soccer vs. american football,basketball etc.?

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by braveheart, Apr 14, 2021.

  1. raito

    raito Poster Extraordinaire

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    Pay for Play is certainly a problem. I have badges, but considering the process for getting them, I wouldn't say they affect the quality of coaching whatsoever. The USSF 'classes' are more like exams. They will not make you a better coach. To pass them, it's more of an indoctrination into the USSF system of coaching than teaching how to coach. Thus the somewhat uneasy relationship between the USSF and United Soccer Coaches.

    I do run a youth program that has paid trainers but volunteer coaches. It's hard to even get parents to volunteer without threatening to disband the teams.

    For boys, this wasn't helped when soccer moved to fall from spring. All the gridiron football teams lsot their kickers. And other players.

    Here, we have the equivalent of Sunday league, as well as 2 indoor facilities doing adult leagues. The other doesn't do them any more. Too many fights.

    What I see are really skilled players who can't play as a team. This makes sense -- the US loves its athletic superstars. But in soccer, there's no Messi without Iniesta and Xavi,.

    I played keeper back in the 70's. Played some as an adult. Stopped because another sport became a priority and my injuries in soccer were more common (mostly due to not being able to get properly sized boots). Starting coaching when my children wanted to play. Now, on the local club board, training U4, running the U8 and under program, and coaching high school.

    Preacher, the most highly paid athlete in the world plays soccer. 80 million a year. Yes, there's a couple who make more when you include endorsements -- I mean for just playing.
     
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  2. braveheart

    braveheart Tele-Afflicted

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    thanks, great insight! That's the perfect answer for my question :)
     
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  3. jondanger

    jondanger Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Do you really not think that it’s funny to call soccer “Unamerican Football” when people all over the world call NFL football “American Football”? I think it’s a hilarious parody of reactionary nationalism but it wouldn’t be the first joke I didn’t land.
     
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  4. Killing Floor

    Killing Floor Tele-Afflicted

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    A few general observations from here in no particular order:

    I am really looking forward to Austin Bold kicking off the inaugural season. I hope they do well. It's as fun as any sport to see live. I will be in a seat.

    Football, or as the rest of the world calls it, "What's that?" is more entertaining from a spectator point of view. I also enjoy watching rugby or Sevens. I played growing up including high school. All sports are fun to play. Soccer is a physically taxing sport. But on television it can get a little slow. The main problem with American Football is my favorite team (Falcons) is terrible and hopeless, Rise Up!

    OK, yell if you feel the need, how on earth do legendary pros still miss frame more than half the time? I get not every shot is a goal. And I get there are defenders and tenders in the way. That's not what I asked. How do you miss a bus-sized cage from 10 meters? Do you not see it? It's the big white thing as large as your apartment. How do you miss that? My saying for this, "you miss 100% of the shots you take that aren't on frame". Do better.
    Also, the higher up you go (from youth to school to pro) the less likely the "passes" will be between players on the same team. Pro tip, pass to your teammate and you can maintain possession, no coach ever said "boing it with your head randomly instead of trying to control it with your feet or body".

    The US Women's National Team are heroes here. And by any metric they are better than the US Men's team. And they are treated shamefully by the federation especially considering they outperform the men in terms of merchandise, tickets, and viewership and results. Do better.

    Spurs fans are loyal and they go to every game! Audere est Facere! You will find me yelling at my tele when the Spurs are afield.

    I think it's 100% stupid for American clubs to use "FC" or "United" in their names. I will not yield, it's just plain dumb. Do better. Don't copy.

    Here in the states the sport really diminishes for men in college. There is NCAA soccer, but it's an equivalency sport like lacrosse for men. Many large collegiate conferences have women's soccer but not men's. That's too bad.

    More of a question than an observation, can someone explain the logic behind a forward clock instead of a countdown/advent clock and why the head official gets to decide when the game is over based on his/her whim? That's confusing to me.

    One more question, why so few subs? If you ask "why is the game pace less than ideal for viewers?" It is because the players are gassed. Throw in on-the-fly subs and you won't have any ties after 90 minutes. You'd get 10+ points per game, every game. And that is not a bad thing. Ties are dumb. Yes they are, that's not a question, ties are wasteful. You start with a tie, don't end with one. That's the entire, singular reason for a score board.

    I love soccer but I don't fully understand some things and I am not alone in America.
     
  5. Pcs264

    Pcs264 TDPRI Member Gold Supporter

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    IMO, "soccer" in the US has come a long way, and it still has an even longer way to go to begin to catch up with the rest of the world. If you want to get a grasp of what the rest of the world sees, I highly recommend a series on Netflix called "All or Nothing". Start with the episodes about Manchester City - you'll see a game far more exciting & interesting than any you'll find over here, you'll learn a lot about the strategies & teamwork that makes it happen. And you'll meet some interesting players as people from all around the world - from Western & Eastern Europe, Africa, South America, Japan ...but no players from the US.
    Caution: this series is entertaining & addictive, and I wasn't a soccer fan before seeing this series!
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
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  6. 50ShadesofOrange

    50ShadesofOrange Tele-Meister

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    So America sucks at futbol because there aren’t enough clever people to play it?
     
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  7. omahaaudio

    omahaaudio Friend of Leo's

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    Pretty much.
     
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  8. omahaaudio

    omahaaudio Friend of Leo's

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    There's nothing unamerican about soccer/football.
    In every country in the world (bar the US and possibly Canada), "football" is the sport where people kick a round ball around, with their feet, for 90 minutes, so calling the one where you toss, and once-in-a-while kick, an oblong ball around for 4.5 hours (including commercials) "American football" seems very sensible.
    YMMV (or, as they'd write in Europe Yl/100kmMV).
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
  9. bgmacaw

    bgmacaw Poster Extraordinaire

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    "Did you see that ludicrous display last night?"

     
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  10. MugHimself

    MugHimself TDPRI Member

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    Soccers not a big thing where I live in terms of our local culture but like others have said it does have its own strong following in certain communities
     
  11. jondanger

    jondanger Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    The whole point of the joke is that Americans are humorless reactionaries who insist on thinking of themselves as the center of the universe.

    When you tell an American that they have to qualify their preferred sport as “American” football, they say “well if I have to call my football ‘American football’ you have to call your football ‘unamerican football.’”

    See, the American is imposing their worldview on someone else? That’s the joke.
     
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  12. maxvintage

    maxvintage Poster Extraordinaire

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    Where I live the weekends are full of kids walking around in soccer jerseys. More girls than boys. But it's one of my enduring memories of 30 years in the same town.

    Soccer is nowhere near as popular as football, baseball basketball and hockey. It's more popular as a women's sport than a men's. There's a large immigrant population that loves soccer and those kid will probably play, but the US will never be a soccer power unless we develop the kind of insane soccer academies they have in Europe and Latin America, where they start training kids for pro leagues almost as soon as they can run.
     
  13. omahaaudio

    omahaaudio Friend of Leo's

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    The point is that even though many American are humorless reactionaries, they don't have to call their sport American Football, they can, and do, just call it football. They're wrong of course...
    :D
     
  14. omahaaudio

    omahaaudio Friend of Leo's

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  15. buster poser

    buster poser Friend of Leo's Platinum Supporter

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    Speaking of relative popularity, we have no pro sports in any top-tier leagues, but we do have a USL (second tier league) team: NM United. They're only two seasons old but judging from the jerseys and stickers I see everywhere (and the Meow Wolf sponsorship) they are kind of a big deal in our little state.

    Fully intend to catch a match when all this clears up.

    https://urbanpitch.com/new-mexico-united/

    "Highlighting the most compelling lower division teams in the United States, our Descending the Pyramid series continues with New Mexico United, who only needed one season to take the USL Championship by storm.

    It all started in a dark, dingy pub in London. Peter Trevisani worked in England, and he kept wondering why his co-workers would wheel televisions into the office or suddenly disappear for two or three hours at a time during lunch. It was the 1998 World Cup, and as a former college American football player from the Boston area, Trevisani wasn’t necessarily up on game. Curious about the hype, he ventured into his local pub to watch England square off against Argentina. He gathered around the grainy television, passed beers back to others, and sang songs he didn’t even know the words to with complete strangers.

    England lost the match, and Trevisani felt unexpectedly devastated. He was surprised at the beautiful game’s power to bring everyone together for those 90 minutes. After experiencing that, Trevisani filed it away in the back of his head and returned to work in the U.S. He never acted on the feelings he experienced that day, although he did eventually buy a minority stake in Italian club Venezia FC. A dream lay dormant until he found himself at a crossroads one day, which ultimately led him to create New Mexico United, last year’s U.S. Open Cup Cinderella story from the USL Championship."
     
  16. THX1123

    THX1123 Tele-Meister

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    I think this is a good part of it. Soccer, Rugby, Even F1. If they can't constantly stop the sport to insert advertising I don't think they want to broadcast it here. American sports enabled this by changing the games to accommodate advertising breaks.

    The Top-Tier leagues in Europe play in the mornings here. Matches start at 7am, 11 am, etc. Apparently us Americans don't want to drink before noon unless it is Sunday.

    I've been a Gunners fan for 15 years. When I lived in Orlando I followed Orlando City FC (which wasn't easy). I really enjoy International Rugby Union also. Rugby League is cool, but rarely available here.

    It is difficult and expensive to watch my International sports here. I need to subscribe to all manner of "extra" services. It would cost me well over $100 US just to get access to all Premier League, F1, European Leagues and UEFA, and Rugby Union matches. I used to see Rally and Moto GP also.

    They will show 2 hours of Infomercials here on a Saturday or Sunday rather than a EPL match or a F1 race. The World Cups are also annoyingly hard to access, and expensive. I subscribed to ESPN+ last week to watch F1. Now I learn I still can't see the races because I also need a cable or satellite service to access the streamed content. They do not enable replays of the events, which is a problem when they are on at 3 or 5 am. We used to be able to get Setanta and Sky and other networks here, but they've removed those options years ago.

    A lot of the responses here remind me of how dismissive Americans can be of anything outside of our cultural references and experience. Enjoying Soccer or Rugby usually also means understanding those sports. That means learning something new, which also means admitting you don't know something. That means your opinions are $&!% until you know what you are talking about. It is easier to dismiss those sports than to entertain the possibility that your uninformed opinion is crap.

    We Americans also tend to view anything that isn't dominantly commercially successful as weak or unimportant. I see responses suggesting Soccer is specific to women or girls here. This seems related to all the comments regarding violence in American sports. It is ironic that the oldest professional and international sport is seen by some ossified & provincial Americans as a female pursuit. The subtext seems to be that because Soccer is not a contact sport (watch the English game and tell me that is isn't a contact sport) it is a symptom of a modern world they might also find weak and contemptuous. Rugby players play on both sides of the ball with very few substitutions and minimal breaks in the action for 80 minutes. They can make and take hits as brutal as the NFL. To me that is another level of athleticism than running a few plays, showboating, and huffing oxygen.

    Personally I enjoy the game flow of Soccer, and especially Rugby. Some matches are slow or boring, but that is an option for some managers depending on the opponent. "Parking the bus" can work, especially when you are playing 38-60 games a season. I've seen what we call a "Goal Line Stand" in Gridiron Football last for a brutal and violent and literally bloody 10+ minutes in Rugby Union. I have also fallen asleep during NFL and NHL games that were slow and boring despite all the yelling and hype and sound effects and loud advertising.
     
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  17. That Cal Webway

    That Cal Webway Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Speed walking...

    where the arms nuttily flap like convoluted, stuttering hummingbird wings, and the hips gyrate like a p*rn clown!
     
  18. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    This is the proximity rule in action. It's why Americans say "the South" and the rest of the world says "the American South"; Americans say "the Civil War" and the rest of the world says "the American Civil War"; Americans say "Independence Day" and the rest of the world says "American Independence Day"; Americans say "Thanksgiving Day" and the rest of the world says "American Thanksgiving Day"...
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
  19. Recce

    Recce Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    I have always thought in the US whoever was picking the men’s National Team doesn’t have a clue about soccer. The men’s team is really bad.
     
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  20. sixstringbastard

    sixstringbastard Friend of Leo's

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    Americans continue to not give a **** about soccer. Check back again in ten years.
     
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