1. Win a Broadcaster or one of 3 Teles! The annual Supporting Member Giveaway is on. To enter Click Here. To see all the prizes and full details Click Here. To view the thread about the giveaway Click Here.

USA: status of soccer vs. american football,basketball etc.?

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by braveheart, Apr 14, 2021.

  1. stormsedge

    stormsedge Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,407
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2012
    Location:
    E. Tennessee, USA
    Aha...you can tell how much I know:confused:. I should avoid any discussion of sports. Thanks!
     
  2. john_cribbin

    john_cribbin Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,641
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2014
    Location:
    London
    Having American family, I know they enjoy a bit of 'soccer' and they quite got into the last World Cup.

    It's often been said that the biggest problem for growth in the US, is the networks don't want to cover a sport where they would have to go something like 50 minutes without a commercial break. But having seen the trial of water breaks during a game, that may be a concept adopted to make the game more appealing to the US networks.

    American Football will always be a niche sport this side of the pond, but London can put 80,000 into a stadium for the NFL experience.
     
    Jhengsman and scook like this.
  3. scooteraz

    scooteraz Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,562
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2007
    Location:
    Peoria, AZ
    Well, by viewership, major league soccer in the US has about 10% of the viewership of the NFL, about 1/6 of Major League Baseball, about 1/5 of NBA, and 1/3 of the NHL. It is in the league with Golf, and Tennis.

    In local HS attendance, it draws about the same amount as baseball or wrestling. Football and Baseball (and even track and field) draw more fans locally. Football and Basketball are EVENTS at the high school level. Soccer is more just watching a game.

    Both American Football and Baksetball favor “freaks of nature” as participants. As one goes up the scale in professionalism, the tall (basketball) and the physically STRONG (and large, Football) are significantly advantaged. Soccer is more like cross country running with a ball. If I ask my grandkids, they love football, kinda go “meh” at basketball (that almost kills me...I grew up in basketball crazy Indiana and love that game). Ask about soccer, and they don’t really have any interest. American Football players they see as big and tough (and fast), basketball players as tall and fast, soccer players as good runners....
     
    braveheart likes this.
  4. uriah1

    uriah1 Telefied Gold Supporter

    Posts:
    23,984
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    Around
    We had soccer parents living next door. Travel a lot.
    There is a certain van they have to have and women
    must wear espirits/sprees.

    Hockey parents and (US football) parents are a tad different.
     
  5. buster poser

    buster poser Friend of Leo's Platinum Supporter

    Posts:
    3,236
    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Location:
    Tewa Land NM
    I have a few friends from the UK and Spain, they like football in undoubtable earnestness; their city, their club.

    I've noticed however, among my American friends/colleagues who are really into it, that their fandom usually has a laughably tenuous connection to the club they support, like "I had a layover at T5 once and a Man U player sat next to me at the gate."

    More than anything, they nurse an antagonistically effete disposition about the game, and it seems they view football/soccer as an outgrowth/requisite affect of their being upper middle-class as OP says, which is pretty odd if you know literally anything about the game in UK, Europe.

    I get the feeling (because many say so) that these fans feel their tastes are too sophisticated to watch "dumb American sports" and it seems they enjoy that aspect of it more than the game. They sure do talk about it more.
     
    braveheart and Ironwolf like this.
  6. aeyeq

    aeyeq Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    378
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2020
    Location:
    Northern Gulf Coast
    billy logan likes this.
  7. raito

    raito Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    6,378
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2010
    Location:
    Madison, WI
    Here, there was pent-up demand for a pro club. Madison and Milwaukee are where the ethnic diversity is in this state. Also, here ar least, soccer has been marketed as a sport that non-beer-swilling neanderthal frat boys can enjoy. They've correctly identified that they're not going to get any fans to switch sports, so they're going after those who weren't sports fans at all.
     
    buster poser likes this.
  8. buster poser

    buster poser Friend of Leo's Platinum Supporter

    Posts:
    3,236
    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Location:
    Tewa Land NM
    Also, I think the problem for American soccer is the quality of player we tend to see here, i.e., a few notable guys who've aged out of playing for top tier international clubs (Thierry Henri, Beckham, Rooney) and a whole lot of others who weren't good enough to hack it in the EPL et al.

    It's a little like our baseball relationship with several other countries. MLB is the show and the world's greats want to play here vs their home countries. Japanese baseball is great, but how many Japanese players have exhibited true greatness here? A half dozen is being generous in my view. How many great US footballers have there been in Europe or the UK?
     
  9. erratick

    erratick Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    753
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2013
    Location:
    SoCal
    I'm not sure on this one. Baseball and american football popularity is trending down among Millennials and Gen Z. Soccer popularity up. Another generation or two and soccer joins the top 3-4 sports.

    Data:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1098462/favorite-sport-age/

    Also Millennials are another large gen in the US. It's not perfect on that graph, but that is the 25-40 group.
     
    El Serio likes this.
  10. erratick

    erratick Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    753
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2013
    Location:
    SoCal
    Soccer in America is a strange thing:

    1) many immigrants and even 2nd-3rd gen Americans like soccer and support their country of descent internationally or follow teams of top leagues and watch on TV.

    2) for kids- most kids play it at school or in rec league until they are around 10-12 when kids start to specialize- going to talk about that in a second.

    3) watching soccer has become increasingly popular both on TV and in the stadium. The top world leagues are on TV on Sat and Sun morning or available via stream pretty easily.

    MLS game quality is okay. It's not top flight footy, but it's good.
    However the game day experience at some of the clubs is great:

    MLS in person finally has a really good experience in some venues- I've been to a Portland Timbers game, and it's a great environment on par with seeing clubs in Europe (not say maybe a Milan/Real/Man U club- but a top flight club).

    I've been to Premier league games, and Serie A and Bundesliga games and Timbers have a great setup. Quality of footy is not as good as those top leagues though- it's Premiership/Serie B at best.

    And not all MLS clubs are like the Timbers- the experience at say LA Galaxy is very different, and I didn't enjoy it as much. But they do well in attendance- but less than NFL games bring, more than hockey, less than basketball, per game maybe more than baseball but less games.

    4) kids playing soccer- there are rec leagues and club teams and school teams. Rec leagues are inexpensive but have mostly volunteer, parent coaches (read poor coaching). There are club teams with trained (read professional coaches with some kind of badge/certification). The club teams are very expensive. This alone limits who plays.

    This is when the talent splits- so at 10-12 the kids that have top tier athletic talent, mostly go into football/baseball/basketball leaving soccer behind. Soccer is way more expensive than those generally.

    And then in high school some club players play highschool soccer, but the best players usually don't- they aren't allowed due to potential for injury. So even top high school soccer is worse quality than club soccer. Some high school coaches don't even have proper badges for soccer. Many do though.

    Womens soccer after title 9 is a potential scholarship sport. You could have 22 scholarships at a D1 women's soccer program. Men's is partial- because of scholarships for money making sports like football and basketball- you have a max of 9 scholarhips for a 22 man roster of soccer in college at a D1 school. This means usually partial scholarships for most of the roster. Maybe one star with a full ride, and then 1/2 or 1/4 or no scholly for the rest of the players. Or maybe mostly 1/2 and 1/4 schollies.

    Also even university/college D1 soccer is less quality than MLS, or good U17 club soccer. The best men's players now go pro in EU or MLS instead of doing Uni.

    The best women players still do D1 college soccer. After that there is a pro-league for women connected to US Soccer/MLS. It's high paying for women's soccer, but not for sport in general (unless you are a star, you may need other means of support as well).

    So American soccer clubs don't get the best athletic talent, basketball, football, baseball do.

    Sunday league for adults is a thing, but it is rare, or neighborhood pickup. Compared to softball (basically co-ed baseball)- which has adult leagues all over- it might as well not exist.

    However in spite of that- this current generation of American soccer players is the most talented in some time. Many of the top players are playing in top leagues (and playing well) and there is a larger base of players beneath them in MLS.

    Long answer long: it's still a 2nd/3rd class sport in America, but developing and more accepted than when I played as a kid. Women participate in a big way and they are very good and have some better options in the US than other countries. So the US Women's team is very strong.

    source: played soccer in the 80s/90s in the US and Europe and baseball in the US. Played club in college. Coached kids in the 2000s-2010s in baseball and soccer. Did the entry coaching badges. Still participate in youth soccer.
     
    braveheart likes this.
  11. twangking

    twangking Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,785
    Joined:
    May 10, 2010
    Location:
    Out in the woods.
    Soccer is dreadfully boring. Almost as bad as baseball.
     
    Ed Driscoll likes this.
  12. Ed Driscoll

    Ed Driscoll Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,246
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Location:
    South of Dallas
     
  13. RoyalBaby

    RoyalBaby Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,376
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2013
    Location:
    Birmingham, UK
    Soccer is very British English, the words were used far more interchangeably in the past ( including in the names of BritishTV programmes for example) until people on the internet decided it was an Americanism and therefore bad ( tubes instead of valves is bad but other than that I don't care).

    I grew up around football ( soccer, footie )as that was pretty much the only sport in school, I lived ten minutes walk from the training ground for a reasonably large team where I could wander on and go fetch the ball and shout abuse and did go to plenty of matches as well as playing to a very poor standard. I do, however, dislike a lot of football fandom which has become about recalling facts and figures. I can enjoy a band without being able to recite the catalogue number of their first album and the name of the lighting engineer on their last gig so keeping it away from dudes and just enjoying it as spectacle is probably a good thing.
    And although in my half hearted way I still support the team from where I grew up none of the team or their manager are from there ( most of them aren't British) so really I'm just supporting a patch of grass. Most connections to and reasons for supporting any club can be considered tenuous.
     
  14. Telekarster

    Telekarster Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,498
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2019
    Location:
    Earth
  15. omahaaudio

    omahaaudio Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,335
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2015
    Location:
    France
    That's the fault of the US soccer (football) system.
     
  16. omahaaudio

    omahaaudio Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,335
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2015
    Location:
    France
    The tall ones play basketball (invented by a Canadian) for 48 minutes/game, divided into four quarters, with stoppages.
    The big (dumb) ones play (American) football (based on rugby) for 60 minutes/game, divided into four quarters with many, many stoppages.
    The clever ones play soccer/football for 90 minutes/match, divided into two halves, with no stopping during each half.
     
    Pcs264 and rockhound like this.
  17. omahaaudio

    omahaaudio Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,335
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2015
    Location:
    France
    You mean the football that actually has the players use their feet?
     
  18. Preacher

    Preacher Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,529
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2007
    Location:
    Big D
    Someone may have already made this analogy, I did not read all the comments but my friend and I were having this discussion the other day about a 5'8", 165 pound young man who is looking at a soccer scholarship. My friend mentioned that if it were not for soccer he would have no future in college sports and he is right.

    But look at the dollars that the big sports offer.

    $30M in NBA per season?
    $20M in NFL per season?
    $18M in MLB per season?
    $15M in NHL per season?

    and that is not even the "top" players.

    What does the US Soccer pay? Peanuts.
     
  19. jondanger

    jondanger Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    6,184
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Location:
    Charm City, MD
    Is running not using your feet? The original rules of American football actually used kicking to advance the ball much more often than throwing.

    But really this is just a ‘Murica joke.
     
  20. omahaaudio

    omahaaudio Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,335
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2015
    Location:
    France
    Not really, unless you consider standing still to be a key to playing good basketball.
    That's called rugby.
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.