Twisting Output Transformer Wire Question

Discussion in 'Shock Brother's DIY Amps' started by TobyZ28, Jan 28, 2020.

  1. TobyZ28

    TobyZ28 Tele-Meister

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    I have two short runs going from my OT to Power tubes. I realized after hooking them up that I could have run the brown wire twisted with the blue wire. Is this something I should go back and fix or is it a non issue because of the length of the run?

    20200128_015042.jpg
     
  2. tubelectron

    tubelectron Tele-Holic

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    @TobyZ28 ,

    No issue about non-twisting blue and brown wires seen here, but looking at your picture, IMHO you should refine your soldering job...

    But it's me, OK ? :D

    -tbln
     
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  3. schmee

    schmee Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    They should be twisted, but if the amp isn't noisy and the run is short doesn't matter.
     
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  4. FenderLover

    FenderLover Poster Extraordinaire

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    Sorry, I gotta agree:
    Strip the wire
    twist the strands
    tin the twist
    make a hook of the twisted, tinned wire
    install it on the socket pin
    solder to the pin
     
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  5. TobyZ28

    TobyZ28 Tele-Meister

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    Thanks, will redo the job with a twist and better solder job! :) Appreciate the feedback, First time soldering an amp so still honing my skills!~
     
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  6. Lowerleftcoast

    Lowerleftcoast Tele-Holic

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    The blue and brown wires do not need to be twisted together.
     
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  7. TobyZ28

    TobyZ28 Tele-Meister

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    Anyone able to elaborate a little bit on why or why not they should or shouldn't be twisted, just for my own understanding? I have a few assumptions on why but would rather hear other perspectives! Thx :)
     
  8. schmee

    schmee Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Two wires running close and parallel to each other can result in inductance. (ie: one wire can influence the electricity in the other)
    Twisting cancels that out, helping to reduce noise, or feedback, etc..

    " inductance is the tendency of an electrical conductor to oppose a change in the electric current flowing through it. The flow of electric current through a conductor creates a magnetic field around the conductor, whose strength depends on the magnitude of the current."
     
  9. sds1

    sds1 Tele-Afflicted

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    LOL welcome to the internet my friend. Every question has at least 2 answers. ;)

    That is part of the journey, figuring out for yourself what matters and what doesn't. Honestly now that you're here, and you've gotten conflicting answers, you should power up as-is and see if the extra effort is required or not.

    There are a lot of variables involved here -- proximity to sensitive signal wires, amount of current flowing, etc. What you can get away with in one amp, perhaps not the next.

    Also what @schmee said, in general running in-phase AC wiring next to each other will cancel out emitted electrical interference from both. Twisting wires is a convenient and popular way of securing the wires in parallel.
     
  10. FenderLover

    FenderLover Poster Extraordinaire

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    Twisting wires is good because it helps against radiation (AC wires) and ingress (DC wires). It also helps for lead dress. It may not make a difference at all, but one thing is for sure - it doesn't hurt.
     
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  11. tubelectron

    tubelectron Tele-Holic

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    The Blue and Brown wires here are the plate connections. If they are short enough (as seen on your picture) no need to twist them (moreover, it wouldn't be practical due to the proximity of the socket and the divergence of the 2 connections). If they were longer and following the same path (not diverging) then yes, it would be suitable to twist them.

    Here is below a wiring detail of one of my last builds.

    At the right, on EL84 sockets, you can see the non-twisted Blue (EL84 right) and Brown (EL84 left, partially masked by the serial grid resistor) plate connections :

    [​IMG]

    The only twisted signal wire here is the loudspeaker output (Green+Black)

    What is very important to twist and balance vs. GND - though - is the heater circuit, as seen and commented above.

    -tbln
     
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  12. tubelectron

    tubelectron Tele-Holic

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    Yes, I agree ! ;)

    -tbln.
     
  13. DuckDodgers

    DuckDodgers Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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  14. TobyZ28

    TobyZ28 Tele-Meister

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    Thanks all, pretty much what i had inferred. I was hoping for a very specific "The PT input wire running right next to X wire will cause interference on the Harmonic Whachamacallit :)"

    Even so I will be redoing with a twist to minimize any possible interference and as penance for my sub-standard solder job!
     
  15. Lowerleftcoast

    Lowerleftcoast Tele-Holic

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    For the blue and brown OT wires, it is obvious many here have an opinion. I will leave it at that for now.:eek:

    More important with your build at the moment is good solder joints. I know the 5e3 kit is from china. If you are using solder they provided stop. Pick up some 63/37 solder by a name company (such as kester). (You can thank me later.) It appears the iron is not hot enough. If your iron is adjustable turn it up. If it is not adjustable then wait for the iron to heat up before moving to the next joint. The tip of the iron cools every time it touches the joint. It needs to recover.

    63/37 melting point is slightly lower than 60/40 solder.
    Do not use rohs compliant solder. It is too hard for a noob to work with.
    You may want to get some solder flux as well.

    If your part is not wanting to accept solder, scratch the surface and apply flux before soldering.
     
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  16. TobyZ28

    TobyZ28 Tele-Meister

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    I should have mentioned i have an inch or two of spare wire slack outside the chassis i can still bring inside, otherwise yes I would definitely not have the length to do a twist and route it around properly!
     
  17. TobyZ28

    TobyZ28 Tele-Meister

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    Thx for the tips! Using my own quality solder and flux. I don't think I've been running the iron hot enough for most connections because i've been working very slow and am trying to avoid burning the tip up too much, looks like i need to be more diligent in bumping it up a few notches!

    I have had some struggles with tinned wire itself, I always twist the wires but gave up early on tinning them first as bending the tinned wires was pretty hard to do (was worried about damaging the wire) - wires are a bit on the thicker side (18awg). I have either tinned the wires after bending them or just hooked the wire up, applied a fair amount of flux and then soldered with not so good results shown!

    Any suggestions?
     
  18. Lowerleftcoast

    Lowerleftcoast Tele-Holic

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    Is the whole kit 18awg?

    5e3. Maybe for the heaters but it will be difficult.

    18awg for the hookup wire. Forget it. Get some 22awg.
     
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  19. Lowerleftcoast

    Lowerleftcoast Tele-Holic

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    Soldering tutorial = youtube
     
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  20. Commodore 64

    Commodore 64 Friend of Leo's

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    Flux Cored 60/40 Sn/Pb solder
     
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