Twisted Tele/Broadcaster: American Std vs Baja

[takauya]

Whoever said this mysterious TT/BC set in the two models were completely different, you are right.
I honestly thought it was just another internet gear forum BS when I read it, but I just had a chance to buy a set from a 2016 Am Std, so I gave it one more last try. I'm so glad I didn't ignore your opinion, and I thank you.

This set sounds fuller and richer than the MIM version, of which I've had total 4 sets; 3 Baja and 1 Vintera mod.
Two versions of the Broadcaster bridge pups are differently made. 7.5k, cloth wires, and rwrp (Am Std) vs 10k+, plastic wires, and non rwrp (MIM).
Both versions of the TT neck look exactly the same except the wire color difference; Yellow/White/Black(Am Std)/Green/Yellow/Black(MIM). The one from the Vintera mod had the same wire color pattern as the Am Std though the tone was the same as ones in the Bajas.

So, why the difference in tone on the TT neck pups? I have no idea, but it's not subtle at all to me. I never liked the MIM version and said too many times here that I hated the TT neck pups, but now I have to change my mind. This pup sounds awesome.

 

[Diminished7]

I've heard this being the case but have no means to have validated myself. Would be curious what the really is. Maybe similar winding specs but just sourcing cheaper magnets or parts???? who knows.

 

[Guithartic]

Interesting, I wonder if it's like the Custom Shop Texas Specials vs. other Texas Specials that come stock in some models. People have reported that those differ from each other as well.

 

[Flaneur]

So many manufacturers have their own ideas, about what constitutes a Broadcaster pickup- why should we be surprised, if Fender has a couple, of their own?

 

[53Strat]

So, why the difference in tone on the TT neck pups? I have no idea, but it's not subtle at all to me. I never liked the MIM version and said too many times here that I hated the TT neck pups, but now I have to change my mind. This pup sounds awesome.

I have been one who has highlighted this difference in numerous threads.
We can examine the bobbins, wire gauge and measure the impedance of the pickups and wire coverings etc. When all looks the same why is there a difference?
To me the answer is simple. The magnets are not the same.

As we all know our A2, A3, A5 magnets affect the sound we hear. There are tables which give us the mix of aluminium, nickel and cobalt used in each type BUT very few of us have the ability to measure the actual quantities.
Only the bigger manufacturers are able to source magnets of a particular or "custom" mix.
I believe A5 for example has an infinite range of mixes available before the mix can be identified as,say
A2 or A4 and a small variation in the amount of cobalt or nickel could have significant effect on the tone we hear.
Then of course there is the degree of magnetisation which is available to manufacturers for adjustment.
Not the sort of things available to the backyard builder (or assembler) who relies on items purchased through relatively small retailers.

Anyhow, this IMO is the biggest variable in the differences we hear and one which most of us can only speculate on.

 

[LAGinz]

Maybe within specific guitars there’s a lot of difference too, because I have a hard time believing that the bridge pickup on my Baja was a 10k A5. On its face that would be a seriously ballsy pickup, which mine clearly was not. Sure, it was more 50sish pickup, but that spec should be in Cavalier Fat Lion territory, if not more, which it clearly was not.

 

[takauya]

I have been one who has highlighted this difference in numerous threads.
We can examine the bobbins, wire gauge and measure the impedance of the pickups and wire coverings etc. When all looks the same why is there a difference?
To me the answer is simple. The magnets are not the same.

As we all know our A2, A3, A5 magnets affect the sound we hear. There are tables which give us the mix of aluminium, nickel and cobalt used in each type BUT very few of us have the ability to measure the actual quantities.
Only the bigger manufacturers are able to source magnets of a particular or "custom" mix.
I believe A5 for example has an infinite range of mixes available before the mix can be identified as,say
A2 or A4 and a small variation in the amount of cobalt or nickel could have significant effect on the tone we hear.
Then of course there is the degree of magnetisation which is available to manufacturers for adjustment.
Not the sort of things available to the backyard builder (or assembler) who relies on items purchased through relatively small retailers.

Anyhow, this IMO is the biggest variable in the differences we hear and one which most of us can only speculate on.

Would you agree that the CS version sounds more detailed? The difference on the picking response between the two versions is like night and day. I immediately noticed it actually had a ton of low-end compared to the MIM version. IME, the MIM version sounds kinda tiny and too bright in both neck alone and middle position.

 

[filtersweep]

Has Fender ever sold the non-CS versions as aftermarket pickups?

If not, this could just be an OEM thing.

The CS-designed angle was a big marketing lever used by Fender.

Fender has always played fast and loose with some specs.

 

[takauya]

Has Fender ever sold the non-CS versions as aftermarket pickups?

If not, this could just be an OEM thing.

The CS-designed angle was a big marketing lever used by Fender.

Fender has always played fast and loose with some specs.

This. https://reverb.com/item/399227-fender-custom-shop-twisted-tele-neck-pickup

As I wrote in the op, the TT neck from the Vintera mod had the wire color pattern of the CS version (Yellow/White/Black), so watch out when you buy a used one.

 

[The Eggman]

Maybe within specific guitars there’s a lot of difference too, because I have a hard time believing that the bridge pickup on my Baja was a 10k A5. On its face that would be a seriously ballsy pickup, which mine clearly was not. Sure, it was more 50sish pickup, but that spec should be in Cavalier Fat Lion territory, if not more, which it clearly was not.

My guess/assumption would be that specs change over time, because OP seemed to suggest he'd had four MIM broadcaster bridge pickups that were above 10k, yet the stock unit in my 2009 Baja is 8.5k. Somehow I doubt Fender's modern production methods and QC tolerances will stretch things that far. I also suspect that mine either has alnico III poles, or that the poles have somehow been significantly degaussed by something in the time I've owned the guitar.

the neck pickup is an interesting one - the stock TT in my Baja has some really seriously sweet top end 'air' and 'chime', but it is a bit thin too. It does sit very nicely in a mix for certain things, but my preference these days is leaning more toward a thicker, rounder neck pickup sound.

 

[takauya]

My guess/assumption would be that specs change over time, because OP seemed to suggest he'd had four MIM broadcaster bridge pickups that were above 10k, yet the stock unit in my 2009 Baja is 8.5k. Somehow I doubt Fender's modern production methods and QC tolerances will stretch things that far. I also suspect that mine either has alnico III poles, or that the poles have somehow been significantly degaussed by something in the time I've owned the guitar.

the neck pickup is an interesting one - the stock TT in my Baja has some really seriously sweet top end 'air' and 'chime', but it is a bit thin too. It does sit very nicely in a mix for certain things, but my preference these days is leaning more toward a thicker, rounder neck pickup sound.

That's interesting. I've never heard a Baja Broadcaster with that low reading. I wonder if they somehow installed a Nocaster Bridge in yours. Does it have black/white plastic covered wires and a copper plated baseplate?
I always check if magnets are ok with my screw driver and pretty sure mine were all alnico 5s. My Bajas are 2009, 2014, and 2018 (sold), btw.

 

[Becks Ashtray]

I have been one who has highlighted this difference in numerous threads.
We can examine the bobbins, wire gauge and measure the impedance of the pickups and wire coverings etc. When all looks the same why is there a difference?
To me the answer is simple. The magnets are not the same.

As we all know our A2, A3, A5 magnets affect the sound we hear. There are tables which give us the mix of aluminium, nickel and cobalt used in each type BUT very few of us have the ability to measure the actual quantities.
Only the bigger manufacturers are able to source magnets of a particular or "custom" mix.
I believe A5 for example has an infinite range of mixes available before the mix can be identified as,say
A2 or A4 and a small variation in the amount of cobalt or nickel could have significant effect on the tone we hear.
Then of course there is the degree of magnetisation which is available to manufacturers for adjustment.
Not the sort of things available to the backyard builder (or assembler) who relies on items purchased through relatively small retailers.

Anyhow, this IMO is the biggest variable in the differences we hear and one which most of us can only speculate on.

Magnets definitely play a role in the tone.
Did you look at Alnico 8 magnets or Ceramic 8?
In the end it's about the player and the way the fingers move on the fretboard and what the other hand is doing.
See Jeff Beck

 

[53Strat]

Magnets definitely play a role in the tone.
Did you look at Alnico 8 magnets or Ceramic 8?
In the end it's about the player and the way the fingers move on the fretboard and what the other hand is doing.
See Jeff Beck

Definitely not.
When you have three Telecasters, Baja, Am Professional with CS TT set and a 2006 Custom Classic, all with TT necks pickups, sounding perceptibly different it ain't in the fingers or how they move.

 

[Milspec]

There has to be some influence according to location of manufacture. The MIM TT is not manufactured in the same location as the CS version, so even though the specs are the same, there must be some difference in the building process.

I remember when Dodge came out with the V10 engine. They were being built in Mexico and Michigan to the same specs, but there was a higher rate of heads warping from the Mexico factory. It isn't surprising that there might be some subtle differences found in any manufactured product...as suggested, it is likely the composition of the magnets or maybe the grade of wiring, or the backing plates, etc.

The fact that they used different colored wire suggests either intentionally marking one for distinction or else it is actually the quality or grade of wire that makes up the difference.

 

[LAGinz]

Interesting. My Baja TT neck pickup just sounds tremendous, not thin at all. The bridge on the other hand balanced well with the TT, but on its own sounded warmish, however, without much punch or dynamics-and generally lacking in personality. (Tried many height adjustments, to no avail) I find the “A5 10k” spec interesting, because that is the reported spec for the TT bridge pickup (which Fender separately sells as part of a TT set) It is supposed to be a different pickup than a Broadcaster.

 

[takauya]

Interesting. My Baja TT neck pickup just sounds tremendous, not thin at all. The bridge on the other hand balanced well with the TT, but on its own sounded warmish, however, without much punch or dynamics-and generally lacking in personality. (Tried many height adjustments, to no avail) I find the “A5 10k” spec interesting, because that is the reported spec for the TT bridge pickup (which Fender separately sells as part of a TT set) It is supposed to be a different pickup than a Broadcaster.

The TT Bridge has staggered polepieces and a shorter bobbin.
Alan Hamel who designed the TT/Broadcaster once posted here that the Broadcaster is the flat polepiece version of the Texas Special. So, I guess the one in the Baja is that of the MIM Texas Special, not the CS TS.
The Am Std Broadcaster sounds nothing like the Baja Broadcaster, and it's 7.5k not 10k+ of the CS TS. The plot thickens...

 

[GearGeek01]

But... but... but... they (Fender) hyped the Classic Player Baja Tele as having "USA Custom Shop Pickups"... so why are we saying since they were installed in a Mexican-made guitar, that they are NOT what Fender said, who said they were USA Custom Shop pickups... (???)

 

[takauya]

But... but... but... they (Fender) hyped the Classic Player Baja Tele as having "USA Custom Shop Pickups"... so why are we saying since they were installed in a Mexican-made guitar, that they are NOT what Fender said, who said they were USA Custom Shop pickups... (???)

Who knows, but they could have meant CS "designed" pups and deleted the "" part. lol

 

[GearGeek01]

Who knows, but they could have meant CS "designed" pups and deleted the "" part. lol

The Sweetwater add is still up for the Classic Player Baja Teles... states plainly "The Classic Player Baja Telecaster sports a Custom Shop Twisted Tele neck pickup and a Broadcaster bridge pickup"

Then a little farther down:

• Custom Shop Twisted Tele single-coil neck pickup
• Custom Shop Broadcaster single-coil bridge pickup

They did slip in the wording for this model "custom shop designed"... or "in collaboration with the Fender Custom Shop"... but clearly state "custom shop" made pickups, not Mexican made pickups...

Fender Classic Player Baja Telecaster - Blonde w/ Maple Fingerboard

Solidbody Electric Guitar with Ash Body, Maple Neck, Maple Fingerboard, and Custom Shop Single-coil Pickups - Blonde

www.sweetwater.com

They are NOT Mexican made knock-offs for pickups...

 

[GearGeek01]

Gibson does a similar thing with their Epiphone "Inspired by Gibson" 59 Les Paul Standard... those have Gibson USA Burstbuckers in them... (IMHO, the best Epiphone model Les Paul ever...)

"Inspired by Gibson" (sometimes says "Inspired by the Gibson custom shop) is Gibson's way of saying (by Fender) "custom shop designed"...