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Twin Reverb + which eminence speakers?

Discussion in 'Glowing Bottle Tube Amp Forum' started by ChipOnly, Jan 29, 2017.

  1. ChipOnly

    ChipOnly Tele-Holic

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    Forgive me gang, I know the twin reverb speaker question has been asked umpteen times, and I have read a lot of those threads already. But I would be grateful for your input once again for my particular sitch and goal.

    Here's my deal - I have a Blackfaced SF Twin, I typically play teles, and I'm a clean amp with pedal dirt type of player. The Twin has the original fender blue label (oxford?) speakers. They're ok, but good god is this amp bright. Treble above 4 (or 3 with bright) is icepick, either pickup - read about guys running treble on 7 and it blows my mind/ears. I end up running my treble a little short of 4, mids on 2-3, and bass at 3-4. I play mostly rock (light to heavy) and country.

    It is my understanding that brightness to be kinda par for the twin reverb course (and tele course too) but I'm considering a speaker swap to address it. Good idea? Wrong solution? I figure most of my choices are at least a step up from the original fenders, no matter which way I go. What sayeth thee?

    I get a sweet deal on eminence stuff through my employer, and I am on a budget, so that's the brand I am almost certain to buy. I gathered from those earlier threads that some popular choices for a twin are the C-Rex, Texas Heat, Swamp Thang, and Lil' Texas. Any others?

    Some people say the C-Rex is dark, other say it tames the icepick well while retaining most of that fender sparkle, which is exactly what I'm going for. Also, they're 50w, under what I understand I should be aiming for (at least 75w per speaker).

    The Lil' Texas are tempting - they're light - but I don't have a good handle on how they sound in a twin - I definitely don't want to make this amp brighter.

    Sorry if I ramble. Input and experiences please? Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Televised

    Televised Friend of Leo's

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    No direct experience but via word of mouth and this forum I'm picking up on the same choices for speakers as you are and they point me toward the C-Rex.
     
  3. Fred Rogers

    Fred Rogers Tele-Afflicted

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    I had Cannabis Rex speakers in my Twin. I found them too dark. The C-rex sounds great in my deluxe reverb, but just a little too dark for my tastes in a Twin Reverb.

    I have the Lil Texas speakers in one of my Twins. They also can be a little bright, but sound great and they take almost 10 pounds off of the twin reverb.
     
  4. thegeezer

    thegeezer Tele-Afflicted

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    Don't have the answer regarding replacements, but I find the tone that you're getting kind of odd.

    I have an old TR with the original Oxford 12T6 speakers use a Tele with bass at 3, mids 2-3, treble at 6 and the tone is well rounded. I hate over done treble and I know it's the quickest way to be asked to turn down. Are you sure something else isn't going on inside that thing?
     
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  5. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    My blackfaced '69 has no icepick. Not at all dark, but just right. Bright, sparkly, smooth.

    I don't have the knowledge to advise what to change, but I'd look inside the amp first. Some folks in the amp sub-forum should be able to help.

    Speakers 75w apiece? How loud are you playing? Jensen C12Ns are typical, and those are 50-watters. And I love 'em in mine, by the way. Not Eminence, and I know some people don't like the modern ones, and I didn't at first. But now... they're going nowhere.
     
  6. CV Jee Beez

    CV Jee Beez Tele-Holic

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    Private Jack or Swamp Thang maybe. I have a GB128 but I think you need to 16 ohm in parallel. Good luck!
     
  7. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

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    First - those settings are not unusual for a Twin with a Tele, which has twang/bite that enhance treble. I assume you keep the bright switch off?

    I have had many of those specific speakers, and they tend to dull the tone, taking some top off - changing speakers will give you more volume (they are fairly low efficiency) but most replacements...even if not voiced especially bright...will likely increase treble.

    Usually speaker chasing is not a solution to significant amp voicing issues. There could be problems with your V2, V3, V4 or V6 preamp tubes but it's more likely the amp was either modded or is simply treble-heavy (some are).

    Often during a BF job the 2000pf caps on the power tubes are clipped off, as they usually *decrease* treble. Replacing them can help if necessary.

    Other than that there are simple re-voicing mods (such as changing tone caps and possibly the negative feedback setting) along with hotter biasing of the power tubes) that any competent amp tech can do. That kind of work isn't too expensive, but you have to communicate *very* clearly to the tech what you are trying to do.
     
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  8. thegeezer

    thegeezer Tele-Afflicted

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    Re: the post about 16 ohm in parallel....

    A Twin Reverb is a 4 ohm amp. The speakers are two 8 ohm speakers wired in series to yield a 4 ohm load.

    Or is my mind failing me?
     
  9. Fred Rogers

    Fred Rogers Tele-Afflicted

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    If I remember correctly shouldn't it be wired in parallel?... I think my mind is failing too. Lol
     
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  10. Thin69

    Thin69 Friend of Leo's

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    Yup, two 8 ohm speakers in parallel for 4 ohms total load.
     
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  11. thegeezer

    thegeezer Tele-Afflicted

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    I am losing my mind...yup, parallel.
     
  12. Endless Mike

    Endless Mike Friend of Leo's

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    Well, I recently asked about this subject, and if you read that thread, you should be confused by this point. If not, you will be momentarily.

    First, I've used the CRex, and I think they work very well. My only issue with them was that the mids were not quite what you think of, when you think of a Twin. There was this upper mid 'knock'. It was subtle, but unmistakably there.

    Fast forward a few years, and to a different Twin. I decided against the Crex this time, and went with the WGS G12C/S. At first, I was bummed. But after they began to break in, they improved. And they continue to do so. Ample highs, but just those harsh frequencies removed. I know, you said that Eminence were in your price range, but the WGS really aren't that much more. The G12C/S really sound like the classic American speaker, but without that piercing highs. It's exactly what they were designed to do.

    But I'd also consider what silverface said. Unless you know for certain what was involved in the modification of your amp, that needs to be eliminated as a possible source.
     
  13. dannyh

    dannyh Tele-Afflicted

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    I had a BF Pro Reverb that had the same issue, bright bright bright. I had my tech check to see if anything was out of spec; the only thing that wasn't to print was the PT; it was out of a SF.

    For speakers, I tried several different pairs and combinations. I did try the CRex's, they were ok....but the speakers that wound up being the best fit were a pair of Italian Jensen C12Ks. They tamed the highs but still held onto a lot of the classic Fender character. Good news is I got them off Craig's list for cheap from a guy who yanked them out of his ri twin for a set of CRex's....
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  14. ChipOnly

    ChipOnly Tele-Holic

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    Edifying. Thanks everyone.

    Geezer, I got this amp almost a year ago from an old, trustworthy friend of mine that owns a tube amp and pro audio repair shop. So I'm thinking it *should* be good to go. I think perhaps I ought to pop by with it, after reading the above responses.

    Moosie, I'm under the impression that it's best to shoot for speakers are 1.5 times the wattage of the amp. I dunno.


    Silverface, thanks for the detailed info and advice. Yes, bright switch off. I do not need more treble or volume, undoubtedly. And that's a valuable insight on speaker chasing, as well - perhaps a solution to a non-problem. I'll have to ask my amp repairman friend about the power tube caps.

    And I wonder also if there is some beam effect going on - this is my first tilt-back leg amp. Thinking that I can hear my tone better with my ears than with my knees, I've been using the legs and getting a direct earful.

    Otherwise, I am pleased with it. The treble pot just has so little usable sweep.

    While I have your ear, this amp has casters and rests on the rear pair when using the legs. I reckon there's bass decoupling. That doesn't seem like part of the brightness thing - I find there to be plenty of bass anyway.

    Seems I should visit my tech friend first. I appreciate hearing your thoughts.
     
  15. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    I think you're right. I was confusing Jensen Ns and Ks. 50w and 100w. I play the C12Ns that came with mine, but I only play it at home, so no worries there, and (if true) the seller told me it had been used in a studio for many years. So, the C12Ns were probably just fine.

    If you play at (loud) stage volume, then yeah, probably the C12Ks, which are stock in the reissues, I think.
     
  16. SPUDCASTER

    SPUDCASTER Poster Extraordinaire Gold Supporter

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    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
  17. ChipOnly

    ChipOnly Tele-Holic

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    Heard many great things about the Webers, aye. But I don't get a discount on those through my employer (you could probably guess the company who right off the bat), whereas I can get the eminence line for about half of retail. I'm kinda thinking that even if a speaker swap doesn't address some of niggles I have with the amp, it may be wise to take the originals out and set them aside for posterity anyway. I always try to hang on to original stuff just in case.

    Going to pop in and see my tech friend tomorrow, see what he says, and take it from there.

    Thanks again everyone for your input! :)
     
  18. Bartholomew3

    Bartholomew3 Friend of Leo's

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    Eminence GB128 - Greenback clone without early breakup. I don't have them in my twin but am using one in a cab with something else. Tames brightness somewhat & sounds a bit like my old JBL from the seventies. Not a Cannabis Rex but maybe one of each would work well - a blend.

    Usually I run my guitars with the guitar volume & tone controls backed-off a lot and also don't use a treble-bleed as dropping highs when turning the guitar volume down is a good thing when playing through any Fender amp IMO. Tone controls on the amp pretty much the same as OP but the tone knob on the guitar is always backed-off almost 75%.

    I liked the idea of light-weight Lil Texas but am afraid they will make me sound like a SS amp - brittle with lots of top-end.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
  19. uriah1

    uriah1 Telefied Gold Supporter

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    Prob emi legend 1258
     
  20. Endless Mike

    Endless Mike Friend of Leo's

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    Well, if your mind is made up, then it looks that that's not the case. There was a recent thread in which Soulman969 said he spoke with a tech at Eminence, and that isn't the case, at all, at least with their speakers. You might send him a message and ask for specifics. Also, I used two C Rex in a 100 watt Twin, for years, in several very loud bands. Never a problem.
    Heck, those speakers never even broke up!
     
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