Twin Reverb too clean. Looking for a something with similar volume but a little less clean

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by gnd567, Jan 23, 2020.

  1. nomadh

    nomadh Tele-Afflicted

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    Or the poor man's vox like my tube crate 3212 v30
     
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  2. slider313

    slider313 Tele-Afflicted

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    If your amp has a pair of Oxford 12T6's then using a pair of speakers with smaller magnets will get you there. Eminence makes a TF-1250 with a 30 oz. magnet that would work well.
     
  3. Skydog1010

    Skydog1010 Tele-Afflicted Platinum Supporter

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    Hot Rod Deville

    Blues Junior will almost get you there volume wise (almost) - at least enough that your ears will bleed.
     
  4. printer2

    printer2 Poster Extraordinaire

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    The pulling of two tubes and running one speaker may do it. As far as modding the amp, I have a simple one that is easily done and easily put back to normal. Stick a switch in one of the output jacks on the back. Then disconnect the negative feedback and run it through the switch, add one wire to the other side of the switch from the NFB point. Now you can run as normal, with the switch closed or with it open, more gain and dirt.
     
  5. The-Kid

    The-Kid Tele-Meister

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    No to all of this and a lot of other well intentioned ideas but no.

    Really feel using higher gain preamps and lower rated power tubes to break up faster is the way to go as well as using lower rated speakers to a tolerable degree that can handle the wattage and lower sensitivity rating....if needed, but feel swaping tubes a d rebias should do the trick here

    This or trade in for A vibrolux Custom 68 or a Reissue Vibrolux.


    The others stuff Im reading from a lot of dudes in genral doesnt make sense. Removing tubes and running only 2......um okay have a fun time possibly doing repair work in the next 3 to 6 months. Running one speaker?....


    Like Im sure these things will work under right conditions but yeah again....


    Um modinng the amp.....um

    Again all I feel is bad advice here.


    Just make it work as best you can before you go there do stuff thats evasive and wont have a permanent effect or may damage your amp.

    Otherwise trade in.

    I would go the tube route as this may solve the issues without doing much. Higher gain tubes LPS Sovtek or current production 12AX7 Tungsol.

    Power tubes. Get lower rates ones to get you a warmer tone and faster break up.

    Bias the amp...

    After three pages only really read 2 or 3 actual good suggestions. Lets not steer this guy the wrong way my dudes.
     
  6. The-Kid

    The-Kid Tele-Meister

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    Noooo!!!!!

    Stop....stop stop man.

    This is not a good idea. It may work now but dont be surprised if problems occur down the road.....not worth it. Please take my suggestion of new tubes or buy an Ironman Min

    ll for what your after but dont do this to your amp.

    Im warning you man. Go get some preamp tubes that are higher rated in gain and some lower rated power tubes......

    Why hasnt anyone stopped this guy yet?!??!?


    I tried hope it all works well but please for the sake of your amp please go back to stock. It wasnt meant to run like that please go back to stock.


    Will be hoping the best OP and hope you take my advice on tubes.

    Cheers and good luck man

     
  7. printer2

    printer2 Poster Extraordinaire

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    Umm...

    ...had to look again, no, not the OP. Then just an opinion, not necessarily knowledgeable even if well intended. First off, the NFB switch will not turn the amp into a high gain monster. More like a 5E3 compared to a Brownface Princeton (exculding fixed bias). A little more raw, may have to change from 4 to 3 on the volume knob. The suggestion of going from four tubes to two and one speaker as suggested by muchxs? This will give the OP half the power and drop 3 dB by going from two speakers to one, (total drop of 6 dB) which will mean he may have to run the amp into overdrive to get the same volume, with the added distortion that comes with it.

    There are a few people on this forum that have the chops to go under the hood so to speak on these amps. Wally, muchxs, a few others that spend time in the Shock Brother's section. Steering him in the wrong direction? Obviously you should not be touching the inside of an amp.
     
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  8. gnd567

    gnd567 Tele-Meister

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    I'm not going mod it.
    I think I'll go another direction. I do like the tone I'm getting when I push the amp and for some reason I'm able to get away with it everywhere we've played (big or small) I may just not worry about it and keep using it and maybe bring along a tubescreamer type pedal just in case the place is really small and I can't get away with it.
     
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  9. The-Kid

    The-Kid Tele-Meister

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    Best thing to do.

    And again easy fix to get exactly what you want regarding high gain 12AX7 to push preamp and power amps into breakup faster and lower rated tubes foe power tubes.

    This is a much better solution IMO than "moding" a perfectly good amp or doing Mickey Mouse stuff that may cause issues to it such as running one speaker versus 2(ohm mismatch safe or not) or make shifting and using masking tape in the power tubes or whatever. Your free to do so but I would be highly against it for safety reasons and the amps well being in general. I cant imagine doing both the tube mickey mouse and the p
    Speaker thing at the same time being any good for the amps health.


    Good luck and your on the right path.


    Cheers
     
  10. printer2

    printer2 Poster Extraordinaire

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    The OP can do as he likes, no qualms with that. But what is your electronic background? I am curious for a couple of reasons, particularly due to the 'Mickey Mouse' suggestions from, well, members that make their living at fixing/building amps and in my case doing it as a hobby but have an Electronic Technician license, Instrumentation Red Seal, Instrumentation Electrical license, am an Instrumentation Technologist, taught instrument and electronic courses for Instrumentation and Mechanical Technology programs in college.

    I can imagine you not being able to imagine what is good for an amp. muchxs's suggestion of removing one set of tubes (masking tape?) has the result of the remaining set being loaded twice what they were designed for, disconnection one speaker brings the load back up to design values. You are just making half the power, there is less stress on the output and power transformers when running only two tubes. Two speakers in close proximity to each other reproducing the same program material at the same power level couple to each other and there is a 3 decibel boost in volume as compared to if they were not in close proximity. Halving the power as when removing a set of tubes results in a 6 decibel drop in volume. This can be made up by turning up the amp, bringing it into clipping.

    The switch to disconnect the negative feedback (NFB) was suggested in case the OP wanted to run his amp clean or dirtier with the flick of a switch. The NFB takes some of the signal from the output and inverts it and adds it to the signal resulting in a decrease in distortion at the cost of a little gain. Most guitar amps do not have more than 6 decibels of NFB, they just wanted to clean up the amp enough without adding another stage of gain. Some amps, like the Tweed Deluxe and the Marshall 18 Watt do not use NFB and it is a part of their charm. To do no lasting harm to a Fender amp like the Twin removing the extra speaker output jack, taping it up, and putting a pot or switch in the hole give a way to add a control without drilling a new hole in the chassis. The only Micky Mouse change to the amp would be melting some solder. At a later date if the amp is to be returned to stock, the switch could be removed, the jack reinserted in its original hole and the NFB wire re-soldered. Naturally it would be best if the OP had a tech do the operation.

    Finding a set of tubes that will be run hotter will result in them being replaced more often, drawing more current from the power supply puts more stress on those components. There is not that much excess capacity to reduce headroom by running the output tubes further in Class A. This reduces how much signal is available out the tail end of the amp but amps designed for Class A operation rather than Class AB as the Twin run at lower voltages. If the Twin puts out 80W normally and we want to drop the available output to 40W (the drop from 80W to 40W is a drop of 3 decibel) then we have to dissipate a lot more heat at the output tubes (it is not 40W heat, a little more complicated than that).

    Just food for thought from a Micky Mouse poster that has been helping out here for years. Good luck.
     
  11. Jakedog

    Jakedog Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    When I read the original post the first thing to pop into my head was JTM45...
     
  12. radiocaster

    radiocaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    Yes, Marshall and get a 2x12" open back instead of a 4x12".
     
  13. zcostilla

    zcostilla TDPRI Member

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    Try a tube swap. Keep the current tubes in a storage bag and go with something that sounds more to your style. You’re not doing anything permanent. The tubes are easily swapped and the preamp tubes are simply plug and play. The 6L6 tube bias is not that difficult.

    https://www.thetubestore.com/6l6-tube-reviews-chart

    https://www.thetubestore.com/6l6-tube-reviews



    You can also up the gain in the preamp section by going from a 12AT7 to a 12AX7, as the pin layout is identical, and you go from a gain factor of 60 to a gain factor of 100

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12AX7

    https://www.thetubestore.com/12ax7-tube-reviews
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
  14. zcostilla

    zcostilla TDPRI Member

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    The Vox AC30 is very different from the Fender sound. Fenders typically have a scooped EQ sound with the midrange naturally cut and has fewer harmonic overtones because of the negative feedback circuit. The Vox AC30 has a much flatter EQ, and without the negative feedback loop it is very “chimey” with tons of harmonic overtones. Here’s a great video on the AC30 and it’s “British sound”. Jump to 14:31 in the video for the technical explanation, but if you have the time, watch the whole thing for a great video on the history of the AC30.



    edited for clarity
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
  15. Henry Mars

    Henry Mars Tele-Afflicted

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    I would get a Bassman if you gotta have fender. On the other hand I'm very thrifty and probably would just put a pedal in front of it ,,,, but then again I really cheap so I just pull out my Peavey Deuce .... If you think anybody listening will know the difference your kidding yourself.
    I'm not a big fan of British Amps .... except the HyWatt. There are a number of Traynors that might work too.
    Seriously though ... there are many pedals you can use with a Twin to get almost any sound. IMHO it is one of the best guitar amps ever made I wouldn't be too quick to mod it. .... it also helps the economy by keeping chiropractors in business.
     
  16. Hatfield92

    Hatfield92 Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

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    I’ve got to throw in my two cents here: you’ll get lots of info on this forum. You need to develop a hierarchy for quality of information.

    I’d put @muchxs at the top (very limited company) when it comes to resident tube amp gurus.

    I’d definitely listen to his advice. If it was me...
     
  17. Fiesta Red

    Fiesta Red Friend of Leo's

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    My ‘63-reissue Vibroverb has been able to keep up (volume-wise) with everything I’ve ever put it up against—including Twin Reverbs, Super Reverbs, 100W Marshall half-stacks...and it’s less clean at higher volumes (still ain’t gritty, though, without melting the faces of the front row).

    I haven’t read all the pages on this thread, and maybe I missed this detail—what about a later silverface Twin Reverb with the Master Volume or a Bassman Ten with the Master Volume...more than enough volume, plenty of cleans, but with a bit of judicial tweaking, that master volume circuit can add some sweet grit.
     
  18. Durtdog

    Durtdog Poster Extraordinaire

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    Keep the Twin an don't mod it.

    If it were me, I'd try a pedal or two first.

    Easiest and cheapest way. If it doesn't work out for you, sell the pedal and go to plan B.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
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  19. cyclopean

    cyclopean Friend of Leo's

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    how close is that to a vintage club?
     
  20. gnd567

    gnd567 Tele-Meister

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    We're rehearsing tomorrow. I will try my Orange OR15 and see how it sounds but I'm also going to try my Twin with my ts808 or my Keeley modded Blues Driver and see what works.
     
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