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Tweed alignment . . . .

Discussion in 'Shock Brother's DIY Amps' started by dean, Mar 1, 2021.

  1. dean

    dean Friend of Leo's

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    I’m ready to glue the tweed onto my 5f1 practice cabinet (the main cabinet is a 5f11). In aligning the tweed, the tutorials indicate that the tweed lines should be running at a 45 degree angle. The tweed I have is not exactly 45 degrees when measured from the edge of the sheet of tweed. My question is should I do the exact 45 degrees or should I just do my measurements based on the edge of the sheet?
     
  2. Paul-T

    Paul-T Tele-Holic

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    A good question, to which the short answer is that something other than 45 degrees is acceptable for the twill line - as Fender themselves didnt run it at 45 degrees. So it is ok to go with what you have.

    For my two tweed builds I did go for 45 degrees. But the more expensive tweed was well out of whack, so there was a lot of wastage, and it took a lot of time setting everything up with a perspex guide. My cheaper tweed was more or less 45 degrees and was easy to do.

    However, recently I covered a bunch of '54 champ panels , for my amp which was missing it, and took great pains to line up the twill lines. They were nothing like 45 degrees - so I think, back then, Fender took the lazy route and simply run the tweed at the angle on the roll.

    champback1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
  3. dean

    dean Friend of Leo's

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    Thank you, Paul!
     
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  4. King Fan

    King Fan Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    Good answer, for sure, Paul. FWIW, I think the big deal is having the diagonals meet up correctly at the joins and edges -- do they 'reflect' or continue in the same direction? Either way, do the stripes line up nicely? For reference, here's my latest Peter Mather cab...

    BFDDDD3D-F828-462C-A29C-2EDED59ECD9A.JPG C206F10C-7712-4A8F-9943-A7342408CB74.JPG
     
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  5. Peegoo

    Peegoo Poster Extraordinaire

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    The 'correct' Fender method is to have the stripes running from the 10:30 o'clock to the 4:30 o'clock for every surface no matter which way you look at the amp.

    For the top and bottom panels, standing at the front or rear of the amp should show the stripes running 10:30 to 4:30.

    Get it wrong and you can see a bad tweed job from 30 feet away. If it's a Fender and you want it to look authentic, this matters.

    Any other brand (Morgan, Swart, etc.), all bets are off.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
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  6. King Fan

    King Fan Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    Good point. For fun, here's another Mather cab to show the top...

    IMG_6589.jpg
     
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  7. Lowerleftcoast

    Lowerleftcoast Friend of Leo's

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    If they are not 45 degrees it may be difficult to match the striation where the edges meet. Even with the 45 degree cut, some material is not symmetrical making the match difficult.

    The cabinet @King Fan shows demonstrates not matching the striation. Look at the match in the blue circled area compared to the red circle area.

    Inkedtweed_LI.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
  8. King Fan

    King Fan Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    Hmm, wouldn't the stripes be the same distance apart, and meet up equally, whether they were 45°, or 35°, or 1°?

    Here's a pic of two tweed swatches meeting 'straight' (bottom) and each rotated 10° outwards (top). Note the joins still line up.

    tweed.png

    Instead, seems like cutting the pieces exactly perpendicular to the selvage is gonna be key.
    Uncle Doug uses a huge steel L square...
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
  9. Paul-T

    Paul-T Tele-Holic

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    the issue on the cab circled is, I think, that one piece is very slightly skewed, to the top right. It's an issue with the angle of the piece of fabric rather than the angle of the twill.

    as long as your twill panels are at 90 degrees to each other where relevant you should get the correct result - ie as long as you cut the correct sections the right way. I recall dunefinder posted the PDF cutting guide on this forum somewhere.

    Somewhere I have made a note of exactly what angle the 5C1 twill line is. It's obviously vital life-saving information but I can't find the note. However, angle geeks should be able to find it from this PDF which is a same-size scan of the actual panel. I had to make card jigs to work out the angle.

    I've reduced the resolution so I can upload it but hopefully this is exactly the right dimensions and of course, regardless of that, the angle is the correct one.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
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  10. dean

    dean Friend of Leo's

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    I cut and pasted a bit today, but I only got the side panels glued on. All four pieces of tweed are square to each other, so we’ll see how the pattern matches up. It should be OK, I think. I haven’t cut in the corners or edges yet - I want to take my time getting that right, so I’ll do the tutorials on Youtube before I go any further. I only had one boo-boo and that was a slight amount of glue seep-through. I might be able to clean it up, but if not, it might diminish when I lacquer the cabinet. I used 3M spray contact cement on the flat parts, and I’ll probably try regular contact cement on the edges, fold-overs, and corners. That might give me a little more control over what I’m doing. So far, I’m encouraged by what I’ve done.

    Thanks for all the advice - I really appreciate it!
     
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  11. King Fan

    King Fan Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    Nice.

    Thinking about what Paul said, skewing the fabric on the wood (or the cut on the fabric) even a fraction will make alignment line-by-line fall out of step. I also wonder if a slanted front on the side pieces is gonna mean that even if they're perfectly square to the back, top, and, sides, they're gonna get out of step somewhere between the top and bottom panels on the front. But as my mom used to say (when we argued who’d got more of something), who's counting? :)
     
  12. dean

    dean Friend of Leo's

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    As I mentioned earlier, my main project is a 5f11 Vibrolux - it will be my first full build (Mojotone kit). I want the amp to look good, so when I was putting the cabinet together, I hade enough clear pine to do a Champ cabinet, too. I figured I could used the Champ cabinet to give me practice on building, routing, covering, doing corners, etc. By the time I get to the Vibrolux cabinet, I’ll have done 10 corners and will have made enough mistakes to learn from. If the Champ cabinet turns out OK, I might do a 5f1 build totally from scratch (maybe a RobRob build) and give that to my son. Again, thanks for all the help!
     
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  13. Lowerleftcoast

    Lowerleftcoast Friend of Leo's

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    Yep.
    The 1 degree would look a bit different on the cab. lol.
    The OP was asking if the edge of the material was good enough to use as a guide. The tweed material I have used was too cattywampus to trust the edge for a consistent angle. Some of the members here have actually measured the angle on a cabinet or two. Idk if that is representative of a particular angle that was consistently used by Fender or not. So, I will amend my advice to *use a consistent angle and try to bend the material to your will*.
     
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  14. dean

    dean Friend of Leo's

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    Well, I got the tweed on the practice cabinet, and with the exception of a couple spots, I’m decently satisfied. The tweed pattern lines up pretty well in most areas, some of the corners are not too bad, and the tweed is on pretty smoothly. I really would like to figure out how to do a better job with the control panel interior curves, though. Also hoping the tinted lacquer will cover a couple of the errors. I feel better about going ahead with the 5f11 cabinet now. Again, thanks for the assistance!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Paul-T

    Paul-T Tele-Holic

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    i think that's looking great! Better than my first covering job where I messed up a bottom corner by cutting in the wrong direction, you've got all the corners in the right direction with neat cuts where the twill lines meet. You're already way ahead of whoever made Peegoo's amp!

    I think your control panel inside curves look pretty good. Fender ones might be a little more curved, perhaps pulled a bit harder, and the cut might start a little lower down but there's little real difference. I found the front corners of the control panel the hardest.
     
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  16. dean

    dean Friend of Leo's

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    Update:

    I finished the Champ box and am satisfied enough to move on with the Vibrolux cabinet (I’ve got the side tweed glued on already). I tried a few samples that I had on hand for tinting the tweed and decided to try a gel stain that was listed as Golden Pine. It went on pretty evenly. I followed it with one coat of acrylic lacquer clear coat. I’ll probably add another coat if I ever build a 5f1. The grill cloth didn’t turn out as well as I wanted, but that’s because I had to unstaple it a couple times, and it got stretched a bit. In the end, I glued the grill cloth on with the same spray adhesive that I used for the tweed - that worked really well. This “practice” cabinet has been a fun project! Now, on to the 5f11 cab and the chassis wiring.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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