Tube preamp into a class d amp

[nobis17]

Can an all tube preamp such as the Victory V4 line (copper, jack, etc.) going into a class d amp, give the same feel as a class A (guitar) tube amp?

Follow on question:

If yes, would it respond the same, or at least similar, way when you put a boost/overdrive, such as a morning glory, beano, klon, etc., in front of it?

thanks for all your thoughts!

 

[Thin white duke]

If the amp you want to plug this preamp in has the return it's much better, can you use this head without a cabinet ?

 

[VintageSG]

You lose the artifacts Class A gives, you lose the compression a saturated transformer gives and the variance of the impedance of the speaker motor interactions with the transformer are missing.
Played clean, none of the above make much difference. If you like the sound, it makes no difference.
I have used a valve based pedal into a DI with 'cab emulation' to PA with fairly good effect. Even better effect when a compressor is used upfront -and- the onboard compressor in the mixer was set carefully. Class D clipping, even in transient, sounds bad to me.
Try it. You may like it. You may also get better results with a Tech 21 or Joyo character pedal in there. The much loved Joyo American Sound and Tech 21 Blonde have fans for a very good reason. Small text to hide this:- I rate my Joyo AS for direct use above my valve pedals. Sharpen the torches, light the pitchforks, I'm ready. Good sound is good sound no matter what the amp class.

 

[musicalmartin]

I am a big fan of the Joyo American sound .I set SS amps to clean and then run the pedal .I love the sound and seek no other .

 

[Monoprice99]

I would contact Victory and see what it would take to run the preamp of a V4 pedal amp into the power section of a tube amp. Problem solved, the pedal preamp of the V4 would be using the class A power section of the tube amp. I'd ask Victory if that was safe & how best to implement that. Otherwise the V4 is a pedal amp with a class D power section, all you need is a passive cab & trying out other class D power sections seems rather pointless for preferring one class D power section to another, since the V4 is already doing that.

Contact Us - Victory Amps

www.victoryamps.com

 

[MuddyWolf]

Class A isn't all it's cracked up to be. I find the attack response too slow and mushy. It makes it hard to play fast riffs if you pick alot of notes. AB is better but still slow. IMO that's why so many pros have used secret always on pedals like klons.

As for putting a tube pre into a class D power amp, yeah it will be OK, the biggest factor to me is using a guitar cab or a good IR into a 2 way FR cab. I've got some great tones with an EH English muffn and a mooer radar. I had to spend an hour tweaking the radar though.
Will pedals work like with an amp? Some probably will, some probably won't.

 

[Adam912]

After all, Jerry Garcia gigged for years with a Twin Reverb used as a preamp into a monster transistor Mac amp.
I had a friend with both a Twin Reverb and the same big Mac power amp that Jerry used, and ran into a big cab with two JBL 12's.
I modded the Twin for him to give him a preamp output with a level control, and we just took out the power tubes.
As long as you don't hit the power amp hard enough to clip it, the sound should be, and was, for my friend, glorious!

 

[ReverendRevolver]

Don't aim for class A, aim for whatever feel and sound you want, not what you perceive to be a "good" tube configuration.

I've played hybrids (ss power section) that feel alot like an UL big Fender.
I've not really considered anything else quite as similar. Not all amps, of any design, are created equal. When everyone wanted a rack setup, they settled on sound, the "how" wasn't an end goal. (Obviously, because those things could get out of hand).

 

[Alex_C]

If you want a class A sound out of a class D power amp, I'd go with a modeler.

 

[printer2]

Class A, which tube, single ended or push-pull? With negative feedback or not?

 

[schmee]

Assuming you mean cathode biased CL A, I dont think it will give you the CL A sound into a CL D SS amp. You might get closer to maybe a BF/SF sound than a CL A. But replicating that saturated CL A tube amp sound has not proven easy, even with tubes. Just guessing really though.
To me CL D SS is the worst sounding, and least reliable of SS.... at least IME. I do have some though.

 

[Squire Televille]

Imma gonna say 100% yes, a tube preamp into a class-d power amp is going to sound absolutely great. Power amp distortion is WAY overhyped, oversold, as is the interaction of an output transformer with a speaker. Tube preamps will provide you with those desirable second and third harmonics that we all know and love, and the class-d amp will make it as loud as you want.

And yes, a pure tube preamp is going to respond the same way to fx pedals placed in front of, and between it and the class-d amp, as it does when it is part of a tube amp.

 

[ahiddentableau]

The pedal response will be the same, but it's going to depend on how much of your tone comes from the power section of the amp. The power and output transformer can absolutely make a difference in the way the amp sounds. If you're the type of player who cranks a tube amp to get the power section cooking, you'll lose that contribution if you take the preamp out from your amp and put it into a class D power amp. I'm not saying it can't or won't sound good. But if your sound had a lot to do with the power section of the Victory you're going to lose something.

One thing you could try: make a recording of your normal tone, then make another with the same settings with the master volume of the amp set really low. Then normalize the two wav files to equalize the volume levels and compare them. I think your preamp into class D sound should be pretty close to the low master file. You'll be missing the speaker distortion, but that's about it.

 

[nobis17]

Thank you all for your input it has been very helpful. Basically I'm looking for the OD into a tube amp sound without a standalone amp, or directly to FoH. I don't have the room for a second amp (I'm primarily a bass player), but I still want the organic feel of tubes. I do have an HX stomp which does a great job of modeling different amps. But the stand alone dirt pedals I have don't interact the same way with the stomp that they do with an actual tube amp. It doesn't sound bad, mind you, it just isn't exactly what I'm wanting.

Thanks!

 

[Mr Jameson]

I might not be understanding your question correctly, so forgive me if this isn’t what you’re looking for, but the Milkman The Amp 100 seems to be just what you are describing. I have one and absolutely love it for tele as well as pedal steel.

 

[58Bassman]

Class A isn't all it's cracked up to be. I find the attack response too slow and mushy. It makes it hard to play fast riffs if you pick alot of notes. AB is better but still slow. IMO that's why so many pros have used secret always on pedals like klons.

As for putting a tube pre into a class D power amp, yeah it will be OK, the biggest factor to me is using a guitar cab or a good IR into a 2 way FR cab. I've got some great tones with an EH English muffn and a mooer radar. I had to spend an hour tweaking the radar though.
Will pedals work like with an amp? Some probably will, some probably won't.

But, what you discribed is what ClassA is known for- sag, slight lag, etc. The old lap steel and small practice amps like Champ, VC, Harvard, Magnatones, Valco, etc that use one output tube weren't designed with fast playing in mind. A higher power classA amp can do it, but I haven't seen a powerful tube ClassA amp and the Vox AC30 isn't that, it's high biased Class AB.

How is AB slow? It has been used in literally tens of thousands of stereo amps and they need to do frequencies that are a full octave higher than a guitar amp, which means the top frequencies are double that of a guitar. Also, if you have ever seen a guitar amp that included Slew Rate or Rise Time in its specs, I would like to see it.

 

[Supertwang]

Can an all tube preamp such as the Victory V4 line (copper, jack, etc.) going into a class d amp, give the same feel as a class A (guitar) tube amp?

Follow on question:

If yes, would it respond the same, or at least similar, way when you put a boost/overdrive, such as a morning glory, beano, klon, etc., in front of it?

thanks for all your thoughts!

Oh No,...here we go again. Tubes VS Solid State. I'm looking for a tube amp that sounds like a Solid State amp.

 

[nobis17]

Oh No,...here we go again. Tubes VS Solid State. I'm looking for a tube amp that sounds like a Solid State amp.

lol. well not exactly... both have their place, both can sound great. I was simply asking if a tube preamp pedal would respond the same way as an amp. It is not my intention to discuss the difference between the two.

 

[printer2]

But, what you discribed is what ClassA is known for- sag, slight lag, etc. The old lap steel and small practice amps like Champ, VC, Harvard, Magnatones, Valco, etc that use one output tube weren't designed with fast playing in mind. A higher power classA amp can do it, but I haven't seen a powerful tube ClassA amp and the Vox AC30 isn't that, it's high biased Class AB.

How is AB slow? It has been used in literally tens of thousands of stereo amps and they need to do frequencies that are a full octave higher than a guitar amp, which means the top frequencies are double that of a guitar. Also, if you have ever seen a guitar amp that included Slew Rate or Rise Time in its specs, I would like to see it.

Without stating an upper 3 dB corner frequency how would we believe that Class A SE amps are slow?

 

[Dacious]

Why is it important it sounds like. Class A tube amp? And especially with gain units in front. You want it to sound like a Champ?

Not the tone most people look for unless they're going for a certain type of breakup.

There are a very few push-pull class A amps - the Laney Lionheart 20 is basically four single tube amps on a common multitapped output transformer. But most Vox and similar EL84 15 or 30 watt amps that were advertised as 'Class A' are not.

No doubt amongst the millions of sounds available in the average modelling preamp you can find a tone that'll float your boat. Will it sound like a single tube class A amp? No. Why would you want it to?

It'd be cheaper to buy something like a Katana Air.or other mini modeller and use the headphone jack or line out.