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Trying to make a more accurate bias chart

Discussion in 'Amp Tech Center' started by peteb, Jul 17, 2017.

  1. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

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    Thanks Clint for your perspective.

    You mention hard evidence.


    Where's yours?


    My results are completely data based, and I've provided many critical voltages to justify what I'm saying.

    How come your not willing to either provide voltages or bother to discuss the ones I have?


    Good bye





    I'm not going anywhere. I will comtinue to stand behind my results of this thread, and will discuss it openly with anyone who wants to discuss it, and I will continue to act unbiasingly.
     
  2. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

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    Last thoughts

    "It's all about the voltages, and the voltages don't lie"




    This is a "technical" sub forum, so opinions are ok, but real data is even better and should be the norm.
     
  3. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

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    Rob and Bendyha, and Clint,



    This last go around is a good example of evidence and action, and the relationship between them.



    All three of you maintained that cathodyne phase inverters are always idle biased at -1.5V, you were sure of this even though you had never measured it.


    I present you with new information, I measured the AC signal on the grid to be around 9 VAC at half volume and estimate that it would get as high as 18.


    Now we all know the relationship between idle bias, operationg bias, and the AC signal.



    This is new evidence to you it doesn't agree with your expectation. You don't need to believe me, or even think I'm capable of measuring that, but it still doesn't fit your model, and your going to either accept or reject the new evidence.

    But then there you are, you don't really know what voltage the signal is on the grid of the PI tube, and you don't really know what the idle bias of the PI tube is either, you've never measured it and seen no evidence that you know is good.


    So what do you do? Argue about it? Find the answer for yourself, figure out how you might find the answer yourself, do nothing, there's a lot of choices. Which are you going to do?


    Rob, you mention that to you, this is like the 2 prong threads, but actually it is much different and more important. 2 prong has nothing to do with tube tone and running tubes, bias has everything to do with tube tone and running tubes, so why don't you actually enter the discussion instead of just trying to put up road blocks?









     
  4. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

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    Wow bendyha! I never looked at it that way.

    You've measured this? Or did you pull this off one of your charts?




    Now I don't claim to be the "bias expert" that you claim to be, but my intuition tells me that isn't right.


    A 100 volt swing on the PI tube, that's a LOT!



    I don't know how you would measure that. Do you have any tricks you'd like to share?


    I measured more like 10-20 VAC on the grid, cathode and anode, but maybe my numbers are wrong and it probably would take some one as expert as yourself to tell me why?
     
  5. Bendyha

    Bendyha Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    [QUOTE="Bendyha, post: 7783430, member: 109805"Fact : You still don't understand the relationship between input, output & bias.[/QUOTE]

    DON`T MISQUOTE ME and then use it out of context!

    But this is a very typical approach of your posting; to only pickup on portions of information that suit your scheme, and disregard what you fail to comprehend.
    All circuit analysis requires all the influencing factors to be used in the equasion that might have an effect on the outcome.

    A normal approach would be if someone inquires as to the correct way to understand an aspect of a problem, then many people here on this wonderful and freindly forum are willing to chip in with what advise and experience they are able to offer.

    Your approach seems to be not so much concerned with obtaining clarification, but presenting half-(or less)-baked misconceptions in the hope of receiving affirmation, and only partialy accepting helpfully offered corrective amendments.

    Your unwillingness to accept the tried, tested and proven conventions, and in many cases the laws of physics, unless someone can prove that your misconstrued hypotheses and conjectures which are based on a limited knowledge, are not the better way of solving problems, - problems that do not exist.

    The nature of your inability to accept the solutions offered you, deny facts with the pretext of them lacking in evidence - where a fact is a fact, requires a dedication of substantiation that I am unwilling to offer when the proof is then distorted into your vortex of delusion.

    I, like Rob, dissagree with your conjectures, the bulk of the correct startements you have made being mere repartition of statements from others.

    I have posted several posts on this thread, mainly to avert dissinformation being taken as fact by any other readers.

    I have at times been humoured by your lack of ability to comprehend things, and even took the liberty of trying your style of "1st.April Anouncement" in the nonsence I posted in #101.

    which, as you say, went over your head.:lol:

    I, like Clintj, am out.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017
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  6. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

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    Bendyha, that looks like a well thought out post. Thanks, I will read it thoroughly. But I had a post in mind that I wanted to post first, it is important.



    That's a good point that you brought up.


    I apologize for any attitude I have given anybody.

    It is not my intent. I try to maintain calm composure at all times but admit that I get riled up when I feel posters are not giving their best.


    I want to remind that it takes two to tangle.


    We all know Rob can be condescending as all get out, and he is still a good guy.


    How does this apply to Clint?


    They say respect is a two way street.


    What was your role in the thread?



    You get here late, the first thing you do is link a novice level video, and then if I can remember, you don't really have anything to add to the conversation. Did you ever consider how that's going to come across? Not good.


    Then you say read this book. You read the book, why don't YOU TELL US what the eff the book has to say about the GD situation. Now that would helpful.



    Thanks Clint, your a good guy!
     
  7. Old Tele man

    Old Tele man Friend of Leo's

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    I believe the old adage about "...leading horses to water, but can't make them drink..." fits the bill here.

    I found it better to just "delete" my last post than to '...talk to the wall...' any further.
     
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  8. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

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    This is a joke right?

    I get it. Har har



    One thing I can tell you regarding this thread, is I am giving my honest sincere best effort.
     
  9. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

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    #1 rule on the forum, you can give advice, but it's the other persons prerogative whether or not they want to accept it.

    #2 rule on the forum, if somebody else not taking your advice brings you down, then you are getting overly involved.


    It's all right Bendyha, although it looks like you entered this thread with a negative bias, I still think your a good guy.
     
  10. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

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    That's cool old tele man. I pride myself in being an independent thinker, I make my own decisions.



    Don't worry none about what I think if it doesn't suit you, I won't mind.
     
  11. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

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    Is this a recipe for growth? Or is this a recipe for stagnation?




    Only you can decide if thee is anything new here.


    I think there is a lot of old with a little new added in.
     
  12. robrob

    robrob Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    I'm hoping any "condescension" in my tone comes from me answering not only for the op but later thread readers. These threads may live forever.
     
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  13. RLee77

    RLee77 Friend of Leo's

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    I had opted out, but have to jump in for this... Rob is not at all a condescending type of person in the many posts I've read, and is one of the most generously-helpful people around here...
     
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  14. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

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    Rob, I thought you and I were in agreement at this point. This is post 67. Although I had just said it, and you were just repeating it, and by your tone here I think you are implying I am trying to take credit for it, and calling it something new. That's all right, a little condescending but I liked the remark over all.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017
  15. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

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    And then you kind of disappear, and then repear, and make this about face without justification.




    It's this kind of inconsistency without even bothering to explain yourself that I find hard to deal with.




    The worst thing anyone could do to this thread doesn't even involve me. You can bash my ideas, you can bash the way I do things, I'm OK that. But if anyone could discredit the testing, analysis, and results that Are this thread, that would really hurt.
     
  16. jazzguitar

    jazzguitar Tele-Afflicted

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    Right, I meant the total power consumption is the same with or without signal. Thanks!
     
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