Trying Acrylic Lacquer

[brandonwhite]

I'm looking at trying acrylic lacquer instead of nitro.

I've heard it has the same look and feel, but is more durable.
Kind of a good happy medium between nitro and poly.
Is this true?

Also, is this a good one to try?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002YOPOG/?tag=tdpri-20

Any other recommendations?

Thanks.

 

[tweeet]

Tried it....once...didn't like it !

 

[JuneauMike]

I used this stuff as a clear gloss on the advice of a paint expert and it worked really well. Pretty easy to apply and dried very hard. Should be able to find it at any decent paint shop.

The only downside is that once you trigger the catalizer inside you have a limited period of time to use it. So no matter how much you need, you end up killing an entire can.

 

[telepraise]

I highly doubt an acrylic lacquer is going to be more durable than nitro unless it is post-catalyzed. And as Mike notes, once you catalyze it, you have a limited pot life. Also, acrylics tend to have a clear/white cast to them (non-yellowing they advertise) so make sure you've got any amber tinting you desire already on the wood before you finish. I'd research the sanding/buffing out of any finish your considering using ahead of time (you might have to go with auto buffing sauce).

 

[tweeet]

The acrylic I used took an eternity to dry...over three months if I remember....and even then it wasn't rock hard

 

[JuneauMike]

The acrylic I used took an eternity to dry...over three months if I remember....and even then it wasn't rock hard

What brand did you use?

 

[EsquireOK]

I would call your description, "Same look and feel, but more durable" a combination of inaccurate and overly general.

Different look and feel. More durable in some ways, but not in others.

Compared to nitrocellulose, it's softer and more elastic once dry. That means it doesn't have quite as much initial gloss as nitro, and it doesn't hold its gloss as well over time. It rubs off more easily and impresses more easily.

However, it is still glossy enough, at least initially, and due to better elasticity, it resists checking a lot better than nitro. And it also doesn't yellow nearly as much.

Look at a non-garaged circa 1960 Olympic White GM car with original paint some time, e.g. a Cadillac. That was a single stage acrylic lacquer. It always looks like hell. No gloss left, rubbed through on high spots. Or look at old VWs from the '60s. They were often single stage acrylics. Finding one with shiny original finish is near impossible. Sometimes you can buff them back to a nice gloss, but they are usually fully matte (often with rub-through) or somewhere in between shiny and matte.

It does perform better with a clear coat, even an acrylic clear coat. But you still have the same issues that stem from more softness. It's not as resistant to abrasion wear. It loses gloss like a mofo, and rubs through more readily.

"Back in the day," acrylic lacquer was used for the color coats of all of Fender's metallics except for Sherwood Green, and it was also used for Olympic white. HOWEVER, this was all with nitro clear on top. There were exceptions, e.g. occasionally Fender was known to pick up some acrylic clear when needed...but acrylic color/nitro clear was the norm. And of course we all know that some Oly White Fenders were not clear coated (especially early ones). Remember that DuPont intended Oly White to be a single stage color, so that's how Fender sprayed it originally. But its gloss performance just wasn't there for an item that gets handled daily, so Fender soon started clear coating it with nitro (unless they were in a rush). These colors were formulated to be acrylic lacquers from the start, so paint companies never even received nitro recipes for them from DuPont.

So, this is not to say that acrylic is a bad thing through and through. Just know what you're in for. For a "relic" it's actually a really good choice for getting rapid dulling and rub-through. Just spray single stage acrylic, and your guitar will break in 3X as fast. And it's also a good choice for vintage accuracy (with nitro clear over it). But it's not a good choice for rapid yellowing or checking.

 

[tweeet]

honestly can't remember...but thought I'd try it as at the time was buying cans of nitro....at £17 a piece...in the end as I was finishing more and more I bought a compressor, gun, 5L tins of lacquer and thinner....that lasted me yonks. No substitute for nitro !

This was 12 years ago !

 

[netgear69]

Any clear coat used on a car will work the stuff has to be durable i have used UPOL many times it cures very fast and very hard 500ml can is enough to cover a body sanding between coats will give you a high gloss finish
avoid any of the really cheap acrylic stuff used for arts and crafts it never cures

 

[JuneauMike]

Any clear coat used on a car will work the stuff has to be durable i have used UPOL many times it cures very fast and very hard 500ml can is enough to cover a body sanding between coats will give you a high gloss finish
avoid any of the really cheap acrylic stuff used for arts and crafts it never cures

Doesn't acrylic melt into the previous layer like nitro does?

 

[Ghostdriver]

Tried it....once...didn't like it !

what this guy says, never dried

 

[Silverface]

I've heard it has the same look and feel, but is more durable.
Kind of a good happy medium between nitro and poly.
Is this true?

There's no noticeable difference in durability, and you can alternate coats of nitro and acrylic; they blend into each other just they blend into themselves.

Some "nitro" lacquers have small amounts of acrylic resin added for improved flexibility due to temperature changes and significantly increased impact resistance. Others are blends of the two; in a few cases "nitro" is actually acrylic. You have to check the MSDS - if nitrocellulose resin (or cellulose nitrate) is not on the list of hazardous ingredients it's not "nitro" at all.

Nitrocellulose resin is classified as a hazardous ingredient and is required to be listed on the MSDS - although there are a few cases where a "proprietary resin system" is listed. As long as it has a CAS number emergency personnel can look up in the CAS index it's fine - the ingredients are not meant for users, only the precautionary, personal protection, cleanup/disposal and related info are user-focused.

And acrylic resin is not a hazardous ingredient - it doesn't have to be listed at all!

That last part is what makes it so difficult to determine what you actually have - although if mineral spirits (or petroleum distillates, or naphtha) and/or "alkyd resin" are listed you have a blend of some sort of lacquer and oil based enamel (i.e.gloss trim paint or similar -a "lacquer enamel". Color tone ans Deft fall in this category, with lower durability and much longer dry times.

I highly doubt an acrylic lacquer is going to be more durable than nitro unless it is post-catalyzed.

Respectfully, this is not correct. An acrylic lacquer might be more or less durable than a specific nitrocellulose lacquer - or be essentially the same. It depends entirely on the specific resins used in the formulations, certain pigments (some affect durability) surfactants (flow additives) and so on.

This is where the realms of the coatings chemist and that of bean counters/marketeers clash. The chemist wants to make the best product; the accountants and marketing people want to lower costs resulting in lower quality.

I'd research the sanding/buffing out of any finish your considering using ahead of time (you might have to go with auto buffing sauce).

Acrylic lacquers - as an example, Duplicolor, which many of the aerosol users on this forum are familiar with - dries in about an hour if applied properly and can be immediately buffed with cloth wheels and stick-type buffing compounds.

I discourage the use of paste or liquid auto buffing compounds and orbital "polishing wheels". Both are intended for polishing weathered auto finishes - not buffing freshly applied lacquer of any type; and almost all of them contain silicones and/or waxes, the last thing you want on your newly-finished guitar. They leave contaminants on the surface and attract others.The only exception is pure clay. With a vertical wheel, not an orbital machine, which often causes swirl marks; it's also far harder to control pressure, resulting in inconsistencies and burn marks wwhen used with buffing compounds.

 

[Hereandthere]

I tried that acrylic lacquer stuff at auto zone. I put in the sun, which is what I do to cure anything I paint and to get it hard enough to where you can polish it. The acrylic stuff bubbled up like it had the herps. I heated it with a heat gun to take it off and it came off like broken, limp wrapping paper. I would never waste my money on that stuff. I hate it, the worst ever. California has stupid laws to make the manufacturing sector fail. Yet they burn mountains of fossil fuels to power the internet boom, corporate payola wins again.

 

[8trackmind]

Acrylic lacquer...

 

[brandonwhite]

Thanks, y'all.

Having read this thread, I think I might actually stick with nitro on my next build.

 

[Jim_in_PA]

Doesn't acrylic melt into the previous layer like nitro does?

That depends upon the specific product formulation. Target Coatings EM6000 and EM7000HB do burn in.

 

[JuneauMike]

Thanks, y'all.

Having read this thread, I think I might actually stick with nitro on my next build.

Keep doing research and learning about it. Look at what the woodworking and fine furniture builders say about it, read about other guitar paint jobs. Don't feel dissuaded or bullied into abandoning a course of action or steer clear of something new just because you don't have much experience in it. Acrylic would be a great finish, and when you really get into it you will probably find that its a whole lot more simple then is being portrayed in forums such as this. I think I did an acrylic finish on an instrument before and it was really easy and was tough enough that it sanded to a very nice flat finish. At the end of the day, it's just paint.

 

[brandonwhite]

Keep doing research and learning about it. Look at what the woodworking and fine furniture builders say about it, read about other guitar paint jobs. Don't feel dissuaded or bullied into abandoning a course of action or steer clear of something new just because you don't have much experience in it. Acrylic would be a great finish, and when you really get into it you will probably find that its a whole lot more simple then is being portrayed in forums such as this. I think I did an acrylic finish on an instrument before and it was really easy and was tough enough that it sanded to a very nice flat finish. At the end of the day, it's just paint.

That's sound advice. I think I'm gonna stick with what I know on this build, since I'm putting so much into it.
...Then maybe try acrylic on one of my more experimental projects.

 

[old wrench]

That SprayMax 2K Gloss is a totally different animal from lacquer.

It's a true catalyzed two-component finish.

It really is a super-duper finish though; tough as nails .

I've been able to stretch out the pot life of a catalyzed can to about 24 hours by storing the un-used portion of the can in the refrigerator over-night. It was one of those unexpected and unplanned experiments that just happened to work .

 

[SRCameron96]

2k acrylic High gloss clear on metal flake. Worked rather well!